Author Topic: Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?  (Read 12372 times)

TomW

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Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?
« on: February 22, 2009, 01:05:23 AM »
OK, I'm getting better at this, but I still have some problems that revolve around how closely to reach and maintain a desired temperature. Once a given temperature is reached, it seems pretty easy to maintain it because the mass of the water/whey/curd/pot metal holds the calories pretty well. Since I've been using a double boiler, I've noticed that if I take the pot out of the water before the target temperature is reached, the thermometer continues to rise--often past the target temperature. When the temperature appears to drop, I can put the pot back into the water for a short time and no matter what I do, the temperature appears to overshoot the target by a degree or two. With practice, I've managed to get the variations to within about two, maybe three, degrees. I assume this is because the metal of the pot has absorbed caloric energy from the water that is at a higher temperature and continues to transfer heat into the curds even after being taken out of the water bath.

My question is, how critical is hitting and keeping the EXACT temperature? Is there room for tolerance? Is it more critical for different cheeses? Can any mortal actually hit and keep an exact temperature using metal pots with water on a stove?

wharris

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Re: Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2009, 02:20:21 AM »
In my opinion, temp control is one of the toughest operational processes to master.

I use a double boiler system like most.

I opted to use a pulley system to fractionally raise or lower my vat in or out of the heated water bath.

This gives me some measure of fine grain control over thermal transfer and allows me to to pretty accurately follow a temperature protocol.

I use a thermometer in the heated water bath, and in the milk.



Likesspace

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Re: Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2009, 02:45:22 AM »
Tom...
Just a quick question:
What type of thermometer are you using?
I have the analog type that clips onto the side of the cheese pot.
I've found that even with my thickest walled pot, the thermometer reads two degrees higher while clipped onto the side than it does in the center of the pot.
There is no doubt that what is taking place is the thermometer is reading the side temperature of the pot itself instead of the actual curd temp. My solution to this problem is to simply un-clip the thermometer and move it to the center of the pot, one I get close to reaching the temperature goal.
Of course I don't know if this is the problem you are seeing but I thought I would mention it. Honestly my problem lies more in hitting my target temps in the time frame I'm supposed to. I always seem to run anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes behind what the recipe calls for.

Dave

TomW

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Re: Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2009, 03:06:44 AM »
Actually, my thermometer is not clipped to the side of the pot. I have drilled a hole through the lid toward, but not actually at the center (because of the handle) of the lid. So the thermometer hangs into the mid part of the pot. At the moment, I am using a digital thermometer that reads in tenths of a degree.

LadyLiberty

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Re: Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2009, 03:07:21 AM »
I think the question is, overall, how much does it matter if the temperature goes a bit out of whack?  What effect does it have on the cheese making process?  If we get it to say, 98 degrees, and then it shoots up to 106 when we take it out of the water bath, is this going to destroy our process?

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2009, 06:20:03 AM »
First off you're never going to get consistent results from that. No it won't really hurt anything but it hurts it in a different way and you'll be making your own version of the cheese. To get a specific cheese you really need to stay within the temp the recipe calls for. 98 to 1-6 is quite drastic. How many gallons are you doing at a time?

I don't know why it's over shooting but I mix constantly when it's heating up to ripening temp, then after cutting the curds you let it set for at least 5 minutes if not more, depending on the curds toughness, then stir every couple of minutes to distribute the heat and keep the curds from matting.

My temp stays perfect all the time and it doesn't take any special equipment to do so. What I do is my vat is in my boiler and the boiler heats up, while stirring, I get to my target temp in the milk, then immediately pour cold water in the boiler, I use another thermometer for that, until the boiler water comes down to 2 degrees higher than what the milk should be at. Now for this to happen you'll need a way to drain water from the boiler as you're filling it. That should get you right.

You probably are not stirring while heating up becasue unless you had an industrial burner jumping from 98 to 106 for 2 gallons or more would take a lot of BTUs.

Likesspace

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Re: Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2009, 02:45:07 AM »
First off, from my understanding, Carter is right on the money with his thoughts.

One of the major things that temperature influences is degree at which whey is expelled from the curd.
It also is a major factor in the texture of the curd as well.
If a recipe calls for a max cooking temp. of 102 degrees and your final temp is 106 degrees then the cheese will become a different style than what you originally attempted to make.
Also, it is very important not to cook a mesophilic curd at too high of a temperature.
By doing so it is possible to kill your starter which will not allow the cheese to mature properly.
The same holds true for a Thermophilic starter culture but you would have to get to an extremely high temperture to actually kill it. I'd think the problem with Thermophilic would be towards the other end of the spectrum...not reaching a high enough of a temperature to activate the culture.
I'm not an expert on this subject but from everything that I've read, in both cheesemaking and candy making, temperature is everything.
Hope this helps.

Dave



Tea

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Re: Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2009, 10:18:16 PM »
High temps can also cause tougher curd, which can prevent proper matting when pressing.  Just a thought.

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2009, 02:48:41 AM »
My understanding is a degree or two low won't hurt as bad as going over but it should be as close to dead on as posible witout going over.

wharris

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Re: Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2009, 12:36:48 PM »
From a different thread:

"Dave (likespace) said it best, cheesemaking, the art, is an exercise in managing those subtleties that are inherit with each operational step in a cheese recipe."

Any recognized type of cheese is merely a collection of specific operational cheesemaking steps.  So, a deviation from those agreed upon steps will, by definition, produce a different cheese. 

Perhaps not a bad cheese, maybe even a better cheese, but still a different cheese.

IMHO, temperature is just one of those operational steps in cheesemaking that has its subtleties which requires mastery. 


aiannar974

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Re: Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2009, 05:17:17 PM »
Wayne - How do you heat your water bath?

Anthony

wharris

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Re: Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2009, 05:23:11 PM »
I built a homemade immersion heater from a simple hot water tank heating element and some PVC.  Cost about 20 bucks.
 
Here is more info on it.
 
 
But,  I will have to add that Carter, and other have pointed out how freaking dangerous this model is.  I have no problems with it, but, others might.
 
So,  in the end, I guess i would have to recommend that kids not try this at home.
 
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 05:33:33 PM by Wayne Harris »

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2009, 08:34:49 AM »
Ditto. There are other way to heat. Show us your pot and the boiler and we'll come up with something.

curiouser_alice

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Re: Cheese Making Temperature Control & Tolerances?
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2018, 04:07:54 PM »
This whole thread was very useful to me.  Temperature control is hard.