Author Topic: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton (R.I.P.)  (Read 3645 times)

Offline Captain Caprine

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2009, 06:54:22 PM »
Hey Ryan,
I'm no stilton expert, except from the eating perspective, but I have to agree with John.  It looks like the rind is getting ready to slip.  Might be time to grab the revolver take it out back and put a bullet in it to relieve its suffering.  It's the humane thing to do.
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Offline Likesspace

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2009, 07:49:07 PM »
Ryan,
I've seen/heard of this problem from one of the members on another forum I frequent. I hate to say this but it seems this is caused by both an improper draining of the curd and a "suffocating" of the cheese.
One of the members said his was due to leaving it too long in an enclosed tupperware container. This produced excessivly high humidity and reduced the needed air flow.
One other member also had a Stilton melt down due to an overly "wet" curd which might possibly be your problem considering that you mentioned leakage.
As I stated previously in this post, I've never seen a drop of whey once I put my Stiltons in the cave but I do also leave mine at room temp for 5 - 7 days, before unmolding.
One thing that has occured to me is that the rind on your Stilton does resemble the alien camembert that I made a few weeks back. This batch of cheese was so wet that I could barely get it to hold together while salting.
This also makes me think this might be more related to an overly moist curd than anything else.
Stilton can be temperamental but it's certainly worth another try.
Of course I would suggest using the board sandwich method since I've never had a batch fail doing it this way.
Carter will hopefully pop in with his process since he also seems to have very good results with this cheese.
I wish  you luck on your next attempt and if I can do anything at all to help don't hesitate to ask.

Dave

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2009, 02:04:47 AM »
No offense Ryan but that gives Dave's Alien Cheese a run for it's money. Actually it's a very interesting thing to look at almost mesmerizing.

I don't think I would eat it. How long did you flip the mold at room temp before caving? I go at least 4-5 days. Excess whey can be the culprit or some other bacteria. But always keep notes and pics if you decide to cut it open and post back.
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Offline chilipepper

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2009, 10:46:39 AM »
Thanks for the response guys!  I'm probably guilty on all accounts. 

Dave, I did press this cheese overnight with about 8lbs of water on top of it in a colander with a hardwood follower on top.  I then milled and salted.  The curd was still pretty moist however at the time I put it in the mold.

I did flip the cheese in the mold for 5 days but at which time I already had a good formation of mold going on the top and bottom (see previous picts).  What I did do wrong is that I had it in a sealed container the entire time. I was thinking that by opening the container daily I'd exchange the air enough to make it happy. 

So in an ideal case please help me understand the process.  After milling and salting the curd, you mold it.  Then flip the molds daily for say 5 days.  This should also be at room temp correct?  Can this be open air and low humidity or controlled in some fashion? My room humidity is about 35% right now. 

Should I be removing it from the mold before mold begins to grow? That could be somewhat arbitrary. 

After removing from the mold and smoothing I had moved it to a Tupperware container for again.  Do I need to keep this fairly open or can it be sealed?   I was sealing it but opening daily and turning/wiping out. Does this need to be done more or less and should it still be in open air.  Dave, I know you said they like to breath but how much?

Anyway on to the alien contender... I think I will just do some experimenting on it. (What else would you do with a newly found alien??).  First off in the picts I posted they turned out really yellow and so it inaccurately shows the color.  The mold is still pretty bright blue and some is mellowing to a dull green.  I may start shaving the rind off and see what is underneath.  If there is still some resemblance of cheese there.. I'll proceed.  In theory could you cut the rind off and basically smooth and start over?  I suppose you could salt it and turn it into some sort of blue...

If there is any reason not to do that please let me know otherwise that will be the plan. 

In light of this failure I started another and will be pulling it out of the 'press' (board sandwich) and salting today....

Ryan


Offline Likesspace

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2009, 12:30:44 PM »
Ryan,
Once I put a Stilton in the "cave" I do the following:
I have a tall tupperware container that I turn upside down over the cheese, which is sitting on a draining mat.
I do not use the lid....just the container covering the cheese.
I also form a wet paper towel into a pyramid shape (simply so that it will fit under the container) and leave it under there, as well.
This seems to keep the humidity nice and high and the cheese can still breathe since nothing is sealed. This works well in my cave which only gets to a max of 58%.
From what I have read from others, you might find a nearly liquid interior once you cut into this Stilton...sort of like a camembert. This seems to be the result of a Stilton suffocating.
Keep us updated as to what you find and I hope this helps you out.

Dave


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Offline chilipepper

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2009, 12:48:00 PM »
Dave, Do you leave the Stilton in the mold in open air (low humidity)?

Also, the shelving in your cave solid or is it wire shelving?  I'm just trying to get a sense of how much breathing it requires.  What type of matting are you using?  Have you ever measured the humidity under there?

Ryan

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2009, 02:14:44 PM »
Ryan, I press it with 8-10 pounds the first night, then mill and salt. Then put it in the mold at room temp/humidity flipping everytime I walk by for 4-5 days. Then put in the cave. I've never had it mold in the mold. Mine always start to mold after about a week or so in the cave.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline chilipepper

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2009, 04:27:19 PM »
Thanks Carter, do you press it at all in the mold other then when you originally pack it in there?  During the 4-5 days of flipping do you cover it or put a towel or anything over it to keep dust, etc. off of it?

Stilton #2 for me had a way more typical looking curd. I'll post that a little later.

Ryan

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2009, 05:12:31 PM »
I press by hand. So after the first night of pressing I mill, salt, put in a mold and put a follower in, there is a loose bottom too (same as a follower), then I press down just a little to give the top shape and that's it. Then flip with the followers in place. So the weight of the follower is giving a little force, about 1 pound and keeps anything from falling in.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline chilipepper

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2009, 09:16:15 PM »
R.I.P. beloved Stilton #1 - well after pulling the container down it really REALLY had a funk to it today!  Almost a Limburger essence to it.  Not good at all.  So I thought I would experiment on it a bit.  I first thought I might be able to salvage it to some degree or another.  After cutting of a little of the rind I realized that I was just contaminating it further by running the knife thought it.  It was really crumbly but still rather moist on the inside.  The smell was just a bit too 'off' to really want to salvage it. 

So as the Captain said, I had to put her down!  :'(

Well here are the picts of the autopsy - please beware and not for the faint at heart.  :)







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Offline Likesspace

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2009, 09:39:51 PM »
Ryan,
When I make a Stilton I use a 4" x8" piece of PVC pipe as a mold.
My typical procedure is to load the curd into the mold with a basic dinner plate on the bottom.
After loading the curd I then put another dinner plate on the top and then flip the cheese several times a day for 5 -7 days.
At each flip I will clean the plate that was on the bottom by wiping with a paper towel. Other than that, I do nothing special at all.
Unlike Carter, I usually do see a good forming of mold on my cheese after about 4 - 6 days. The best example I've made did not have any mold before the smoothing process was performed. On subsequent batches, I've always gotten mold before smoothing and I seem to get a much harder (yet much lighter brown) rind.
The racks in my cave are wire (I use a wine fridge) and the draining mat I use is a bamboo mat. There seems to be good air circulation around the cheese which is something that seems to be very important.
I'm certain that if you keep the cheese from suffocating you will be happy with the results of your next one. I was, however, surprised that the cheese was not more "liquid" upon cutting.
Stiltons DO go through a stinky stage that's hard to describe. It's not really a strong ammonia smell. Just something that sort of stinks.
To quote Spongebob "I smell a smell....a smelly smell that smells smelly."
It's bad enough that it has sent my wife and kids running from the room when I told them I was about to open the Stilton cave.
I still think that your problem is the result of too moist of a cheese and not enough air flow. I'm not an expert on this cheese but this is make take on the situation from what I've seen.
I'll be looking forward to seeing the results of your next attempt.

Dave

Offline Captain Caprine

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton (R.I.P.)
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2009, 11:14:41 PM »
Ryan,
It's good to see you moving through the five stages of grief.

If we get stuck in one stage or the other, the process of grieving is not complete. Thus there will be no new cheese. A person MUST go through the five stages to have stilton again. Not everyone goes through the stages at the same time. It is different for each person.

The five stages of grief are:
1-Denial-"this can't be happening to me", my stilton should be fine.   

2-Anger-"why me?", feelings of wanting to fight back or get even with the stilton for going bad.

3-Bargaining-bargaining often takes place before the loss. Attempting to make deals with Carter to stop the loss of the stilton.

4-Depression-overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration, bitterness, self pity, mourning loss of the stilton as well as the hopes, dreams and plans for future cheeses.

5-Acceptance-there is a difference between resignation and acceptance. Realization that the stilton is gone, that it is not the cheese's fault, the cheese didn't leave you on purpose.

If you love something let it go...
Just once...
I want to make cheese with no border collie hair in it!!!

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton (R.I.P.)
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2009, 02:57:28 AM »
LOL@Captain.

OK, let's see what do I have to say. I do pretty much what Dave does. Although I agree it has a UNIQUE smell to me it is nowhere near amonia. The last stilton, 15 gal, had a very weird smell nothing that I have smelled before in a stilton, I will let it go to term but might chuck it if it smells weird after cutting and tasting.

Ryan the curd looks good, but that only means maybe you didn't do anyting wrong but it got infected by something else.

Dave, how do you administer your mold when making the stilton? I put in a bowl of water while heating up to ripening temp. I just found out I should be rehydrating over night. So if you're using liquid mold or rehydrating overnight that might account for your mold development early on.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline chilipepper

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton (R.I.P.)
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2009, 09:27:19 PM »
Thanks guys for all the grief consoling and support.  It is tought to put a cheese down like that but it has now become personal. 

Captain I'm glad you could help me through my troubles like that and help me recognize my grief.

Oh well... better luck next time!

Offline Captain Caprine

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Re: Chilipepper's Cheese #015 - Stilton (R.I.P.)
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2009, 08:52:43 AM »
Glad to see you moving on
Just once...
I want to make cheese with no border collie hair in it!!!