Author Topic: 1st Taleggio make  (Read 3501 times)

Offline bbracken677

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1st Taleggio make
« on: August 30, 2012, 11:40:45 AM »
Hi! My name is Bruce. I am a cheese addict. My last make was yesterday, and one the day before....


Taleggio
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For (1 gallon) milk:
Heat milk (used 1/2 gal raw, 1/2 HP milk, 1 cup cream) to  95°F
Added  1/32 tsp of Choozit SU Casu LYO 50 DCU, 1/32 tsp MD89, 1/32 tsp C101 and a puff of Geo.
Ripen milk for 60 min. (looked for pH drop of .2) Actual time was 40 minutes
Add  rennet   pH=6.4
Check for flocculation  (should be 12-15 minutes), and wait 4 times the flocculation from the time of adding rennet to cutting the curd, e.g. 4 x 15 min. = 60 min. Or: 3x15 from flocculation point. Actual flocc was 9 minutes x 4 from rennet addition.
Cut the curd into 2-3 inch pieces. After 5 min. cut the curds again into hazel nut sized pieces. Settle under whey 5 min. Remove whey from surface of curds. Stir curds and whey briefly and gently transfer curds and whey using scoop or pitcher to the open-ended forms sitting on drain matting. Whey pH is 6.2-6.3 at hooping.  Curds were still very delicate, so I added a bit of heat to get whey/curds back to 95F, stirred and allowed to rest another 10 minutes
At the end of hooping, turn cheeses in the forms. Do this at least 2 more times, 1 hour apart. Wait 2-3 hours before turning a last time.
Leave in draining area at 71-77° F for 18-24 hours until pH 5.20-5.30. Checked pH of whey this morning (less than 24 hours from the make) and it was showing 5.4…just a bit longer in the forms.
Rub cheeses with coarse flake dry salt (2.5% by weight) Just salted them before submitting this post. Move cheeses to aging room the next day.

Affinage:
The cheeses are aged on wooden shelves or on plastic matting on wooden shelves. Conditions are 39-42° F and 90% RH with slight ventilation. The cheeses are periodically turned and brushed with brine or wiped with brine-soaked cloths to promote growth of yeasts and Coryneform bacteria such as B. linens. Turning and washing is done every 2-3 days for 2 weeks and then every 3-4 days for 3 more weeks. Cheeses are wrapped in breathable wrappers made for washed rind cheeses such as crystal and stored at 38F until ready for sale at 60 days of age.


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Offline smilingcalico

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Re: 1st Taleggio make
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2012, 11:50:20 PM »
They look good.  I'm not familiar with some of those cultures, but I was wondering if you are missing B. Linens from the make?
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Offline Boofer

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Re: 1st Taleggio make
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2012, 12:34:53 AM »
So, you're a CA member, huh? Welcome, Bruce.  :P

Yeah, they look good. I'd agree with Brian...linens or maybe PLA if you have it. In a 3% brine, mist it on or gently wash the wheels.

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Offline bbracken677

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Re: 1st Taleggio make
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2012, 12:37:58 AM »
I was planning on washing with the b. linens in a few days. It is mentioned under affinage. I placed an order for SR3 from Yoav, which is on it's way to me now. Will be my first "exposure" to using b.linens.
Should be an interesting contrast to the cams I have maturing now.  :)

As far as the cultures go, C101 I bought from our local brewers supply who is dipping a toe, so to speak, into cheese making supplies. Similar to MM100 I believe. Interestingly enough, they (the packets) were accompanied by documentation/advertising from cheesemaking.com so I presume that is where they got them from.
MD89 was suggested for use with the cams I made previously to add buttery notes, and also when used with the C101 gives a similar list of components, if not proportions, to Flora Danica.
The Choozit Casu is composed of: Streptococcus thermophilus, Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. lactis, Lactobacillus helveticus.

I am thinking about a 2nd make without the c101 and geo...just the Casu and MD89, along with the b.linens and then comparing the flavors.

Offline iratherfly

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Re: 1st Taleggio make
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2012, 01:35:19 AM »
Where is the recipe from?
I thought that the rennet point seems a bit acidic for this cheese but maybe I am wrong?

Su Casu is a specially formulated thermophilic mix for Pecorino. I am not sure what texture it would yield. Hopefully the mesophilic would help the suppleness of it. Unfortunately that C101 is kind of a mystery culture; it's an amateur product with no documentation (also costs about x20 per dose more than the well-documented professional grade cultures from Danisco, Hansen, Abiasa etc.).  Ah, next time we will get you Flora Danica (or Aroma B from Abiasa, or Probat 222 from Danisco - they all do the same thing). If you have MM100 you can add LM57 to it to make it work like Flora Danica.

Yes, I think the SR-3 works better with this cheese than PLA. Some interesting yeast to de-acidify the surface and help with aroma and color would help too. R2R is beautiful. KL71 is nice too.

In any event, they look really nice. Make sure to age them colder than Camemberts. Taleggio ages slowly and cold.  Don't be alarmed by greenish mold spotting in late aging stages - it's quite normal. 


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Offline bbracken677

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Re: 1st Taleggio make
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2012, 02:32:55 AM »
Except for the cultures, which were based on what I have vs a recipe I got from here the procedures were from http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/recipes_Tallegio.shtml

The next make should be closer to the dairyfood one since I will be omitting the c101 and geo.

Offline iratherfly

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Re: 1st Taleggio make
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2012, 11:48:38 PM »
Yes, Peter Dixon has great recipes, but you listed pH points in yours and some exotic cultures -so I was wondering where you got them. 

I am with Brian too. I think the SR3 is perfect for this. I would consider mixing it with some geo or cheese yeast.  I wouldn't use PLA for this one. PLA is too specific aromatically and doesn't really smell like Taleggio. I also think it may be slow to develop at the low temperature in which you are supposed to age the Taleggio.

I would like to comment conceptual about altering formulas.
Protein-to-fat ratio is really important in developing texture and flavor. Generally, cheese recipes are designed to enable the development curve of texture and the development curve of flavor to eventually meet up in sync at some coordinated end point when the cheese matures. The breakdown of fatty acids (lipolisys) creates flavor. Breakdown of proteins (proteolysis) develops texture.  If you disrupt the balance between those (oh, say ...by adding cream and tripling the amount of fat), your cheese will render fundamentally different. Cream doesn't make the cheese creamy, it makes it sharper and softer. Creaminess and suppleness are derived from proteins and the lactic bacteria. Easy to remember when planning a cheese:
FAT = FLAVOR        PROTEIN = PASTE  (or, PÂTÉ)

And so, if you want to get Taleggio, I suggest to stick with the recipe. Use milk without cream.  If you are looking for creamier cheese (and in my opinion classic Telaggio is plenty creamy, you don't want to feel like you are eating salted butter), you can play with the cultures to achieve that.

One thing I can't understand; if you have access to raw milk -why would you mix it with supermarket milk? It's like squeezing fresh oranges right into a cup of Sunny Delight!

As far as the formula goes, use 1/8th tsp TA50 per your 1 gallon batch. If it's 100% raw milk and very fresh, you can take it down to 1/16 tsp.

Offline bbracken677

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Re: 1st Taleggio make
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2012, 08:09:13 AM »
I do plan on using the SR3 (once it arrives)...included Geo in the mix, so that should show up on the surface growth soon.
Thanks for explaining the cream/fat/flavor/protein connection! 
The only discussions, previously, involving fat content were concerning texture, not flavor. The triple cream cams I have eaten were anything but bitter, so I assumed that the difference between a triple cream and a brie, for instance, was mainly in the cream/fat content. I am not a fan of brie, but I do like a triple cream cam.
Regarding the combination of HP milk and raw was simply an experiment in an effort to extend the dollars spent on cheesemaking. With a fixed income I have budgeted a specific number of dollars towards cheesemaking. I felt that the mix would provide a better result than HP by itself and would increase the amount of cheeses I could make. ($3 vs $8/gallon).

How does one "play with the cultures" to achieve creaminess? My previous perception was that creaminess was a function of process...I will be attempting another Taleggio make and will endeavor to stick more to a single recipe, as opposed to an amalgamation of several. One thing I have discovered is the variety of recipes that, apparently, produce similar results. When I search the forum here for a cheese recipe I often find 2 or 3, and perhaps, another 2 or 3 on other websites all differing in various ways.

The lack of instant feedback (eating the cheese!  haha) is rather disconcerting, since when I cook (and I am a very good cook...my kids have often encouraged me to open a restaurant...but that is just too much work and too time consuming for this period in my life) I can a) sample the work in progress and make adjustments to suit my target taste and  b) get virtually instant feedback by being able to sample the finished product relatively soon.

I really do appreciate all the feedback and information y'all have provided on this website...makes my cheesemaking much more enjoyable   :)

Offline Boofer

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Re: 1st Taleggio make
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2012, 09:14:59 AM »
Bruce, the only thing I can suggest in answer to your (and most everyone else's) need for quick feedback, is to write detailed, copious notes covering all aspects of your cheeses. Including pictures (1000's of words) helps to tell the story of a particular cheese as well. Solicit opinions on your finished cheeses from other folks such as family, neighbors, and coworkers; they may offer some piece of information that may have eluded you. Add these to your notes for quality improvement for the next cheese make.

I know I'm probably telling you something that you already know. Maybe it helps someone else.

What's really hard is making a cheese that requires extended aging (12 months or longer) and not knowing if your process/technique is correct until that cheese is opened. I'm in that mode right now with my Cheddars. I would like to make a Wasabi Cheddar but I don't know if my basic cheese process is correct for the Cheddar style.  ???  :-\

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Offline bbracken677

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Re: 1st Taleggio make
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2012, 10:21:51 AM »
yeah...I am making notes, even regarding daily progress in some cases (such as development of rind and affinage conditions) and taking a few pictures....but really, such as in the case of the cams, I just dont know, until I eat some, if the process has been a success...as such I am reluctant to try another make until I get that "feedback".

The note taking/recording of every step of the process is probably the most important of my learnings since joining this forum!!  An awesome tool...I just need to learn more so that I can begin to really know what adjustments to the recipes to make to achieve desired results. I have some basics, but really dont have enough knowledge or experience. More telling is the fact that other than the feta and cream cheese I have made I have yet to actually eat one of my creations lol.

Iratherfly's remark about cream making a cheese more bitter seems counter-intuitive to me, since (in cooking) sauces are my specialty and if I want a rich and creamy, perhaps even slightly sweet, sauce adding or using cream as the base is the way to go. Hence most of my cheeses made to date have added cream.....I guess I need to seriously rethink that.

My next make is going to be a Gorgonzola Dulce and I had planned to add cream to that (big surprise!) lol...now I am not so sure.

Based on the taleggio outcome (which I wont know for quite a while) I will probably be remaking that recipe and making it much simpler (no added cream and fewer cultures).

Thanks again for all the remarks as well as your copious notes in many of your other makes...because of your experiences with blues I will be making a slurry and adding it to the curds before (or during) scooping into forms.


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Offline BobE102330

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Re: 1st Taleggio make
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2012, 11:04:33 AM »
I mixed the slurry into the milk when I added cultures.  Maybe that is why it grew so aggressively... 

Offline bbracken677

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Re: 1st Taleggio make
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 11:16:07 AM »
That was my take on Boofer's experiences...and seems to make sense, although the "vitality" of the culture slurry would also play a part...Since I am looking for a milder blue flavor I decided to add the blue slurry after coagulation.


Offline BobE102330

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Re: 1st Taleggio make
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 11:28:45 AM »
It will be interesting to see if it makes a difference. 

Offline soleuy

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Re: 1st Taleggio make
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 03:33:59 PM »
I admit I´m a bit lost with  the discussion about starter cultures. But I´ll put here the only information I've got about the traditional inoculation for this cheese ( I don't know if this is the correct word).
This is a paragraph of an Italian book Ive got( Mucchetti 2006), it´s part of the recipe for Taleggio.
“Tipo de innesto : Talvolta si usa lattoinnesto naturale termofilo, ma in prevalenza si impiegano colture liquide o preaparate a inoculo diretto in caldaia costituiti da una miscela di Streptoccuus termophilus e Lactobacillus delbrueckii spp. bulgaricus messa apunto negli anni cinquanta.”

It says that they use natural  thermophilic starter or a manufactured culture mix of Streptoccuus termophilus e Lactobacillus delbrueckii spp. bulgaricus.

Offline bbracken677

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Re: 1st Taleggio make
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2012, 05:20:03 PM »
Good info! Thanks!  Those strains were included in the mix I used, I believe, along with a couple others.
The Casu culture was comprised of: Streptococcus thermophilus, Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. lactis, Lactobacillus helveticus, so the helveticus is "extra"...one or 2 (I forget now) of the other recipes I found called for a meso, which is why I added the combination that would be similar to flora danica.
Will be interesting to see what it winds up tasting like  haha