Author Topic: leaf-wrapped Valencay-style question  (Read 1553 times)

Offline Boofer

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Re: leaf-wrapped Valencay-style question
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2012, 12:10:36 PM »
Yeah, that's pretty much my life.  ;)

Hey, not so fast with the palm fronds...you're creating too much of a breeze and drying out the lactics!  ::)

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Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.


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Offline Spellogue

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Re: leaf-wrapped Valencay-style question
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2012, 12:38:19 PM »
I find that cranesbill cheese just stunning.

I aged in a ripening box for just under a month in the fridge that whole time (would have used a cave if I had one).  When I wrapped I set them in a shallow Tupperware container and covered loosely with plastic wrap.  That dropped the humidity significantly and nearly halted the rind bloom.  The plastic wrap did enough to keep the cheeses from drying out.  I might develop the PC rind a bit more on the next batch. My PC growth wasn't as aggressive as yours,  didn't show for close to 10 days.  Probably due to the lower temps.  Did you inoculate the milk with the molds like I did, or spray it on after forming? We at the last one a few days ago (about 70 days old). Biggest difference from the earlier ones was a thicker line of translucency under the rind which I really liked.  The paste was still just barely chalky and the flavor had mellowed a bit.  They weren't particularly citrusy though,  I wonder if a longer ripening before adding the rennet might have deleoped a bit more of the classic lemony tang.    I'll cut back on the ash next time too.  I felt a hint of grit  where it was coated a little thick, especially on the bottoms where the curd surface wasn't as smooth.

Here are my notes on this make:

CA8K  Valencay type. 8/3/12
 2 gallon goat milk 80
Starter culture 1/4 tsp meso 101
1/64 tsp pen. cand
1/32 tsp geo. cand
Stand 2 hrs 
Calf rennet 1/16 tsp
2 1/2 hrs. coagulation time
Cut 1/2 inch slices no rest.
Fill   4 pyramid and  1 yogurt tub molds  
drain 36 hrs
Mix 1/4 cup ash with 3 1/2 tsp salt
Remove from molds and coat w/ ash mixture 
Move to ripening box.  Flip every day or two for 25 days.
Wrap and store for another 2-4 weeks.
Affinage:
Nice bloom for over two weeks now a/o 8/30 couldn't wait and cracked one open,  so glad I did.  It should do well with more age but the taste and texture was so nice with a 2008 Washington Hills Sav Blanc.  Edges and corners just beginning to turn transluscent.   Vibrant, yet smooth, a bit of salt, a bit of grit.  Worth sacrificing another small one this weekend.  
I can resist anything but temptation.      ~ Oscar Wilde

Offline Tiarella

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Re: leaf-wrapped Valencay-style question
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2012, 06:44:34 AM »
HI Spellogue,  Thanks for including your make notes.  I put the PC and Geo in with the milk.  I sprayed my Brie the first time as well but my sprayer bottle always clogs and mixing it up fresh seemed more expensive and a pain than just adding it.  The PC bloom is massive as you can see in the photos so it's working although I don't know if the variety of PC I used is so agressive it didn't give the Geo a chance or if I just didn't notice the Geo.  You used a higher concentration of ash than I.  I went with iratherfly's recommendation of 1 part ash to 5 salt.  It still seemed very dark but the one try I did had no hint of grit.  Of course the ash I have is so fine that I don't know if I'd notice grit no matter how much I used.

I'm glad you too are stunned by the Scented Cranesbill leaf pattern.  I very much like it.  We were told we'd have a hard freeze last night  (down to 24 degrees) so we spent all yesterday gathering in the produce, herbs to dry, etc.  What a hectic day.  In the midst of it I realized I'd need to pick and save any leaves I wanted for cheese making all winter.  I picked about 60 of those leaves and vacuum packed them and put in freezer.  I wish I had a way to get them to you safely because I'd be glad to mail you some to play with.  If they survived the overnight temps and if you can give me some ideas for how to preserve them during shipping I'd love to send you some to see what you can come up with.  Maybe between us we can further the ideas and successes of those leaves in cheese making.  If some survived last night and I put them in a brandy/water mix I think they might last okay for shipping.  I'd put them in a jar, tighten lid and pack carefully.  Any other ideas?  For instance, if I made a Caerphilly, how would I put the leaves on?  And perhaps it'd be best to do a "moldy" rind with PLA?  I don't know anything about this kind of thing....innoculating to get the best rind flora going, etc.  I think that's one thing I'd like to try.  What about you?  I love how the leaves look with the PC growing because it looks like snow but I don't yet know whether it's going to enhance the cheese or actually detract from the ripening because it's blocking PC growth on a fair percentage of the cheese.  I just looked out the window and I'm guardedly optimistic that the leaves were sheltered enough by the other plants over it and that our whole clearing in the forest was warmer than they predicted and that the leaves are fine.  I can harvest more perhaps.  I'll check after milking.

Offline Spellogue

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Re: leaf-wrapped Valencay-style question
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2012, 12:01:38 PM »
If you lay smooth the wilted leaves onto a tacky rinsed cheese I would think they would adhere well enough, even as the rind dries.  You could try waxing with a clear or translucent wax. Hoeklijn posted about a clear cheese coating product a while back.  I might suggest the brandy soaked leaves under wax to cut down on possibilities of contamination.

I might take you up on the offer of some cranesbill.  I may have seen it in passing around here, but I can't recollect where.  We've only had a couple light frosts south of Lake Erie so far, not enough to kill the tomato  ines yet, and the forcast is for staying above freezing for another week   I know what you mean about racing the weather and the clock.  Cheesemaking is winding down with the girls' production slowing for the year. I normally dry them off completely 2-3 weeks before breeding in November. 

I'm looking forward to trying some violets embedded in some rinds in the spring.  I always want to candy some, but never get to it in the height of a busy kidding season.  Cheesemaking, on the other hand, waits for no man.
I can resist anything but temptation.      ~ Oscar Wilde

Offline Tiarella

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Re: leaf-wrapped Valencay-style question
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2012, 02:03:28 PM »
Hi Spellogue,  I can send you a bit of plant and a bunch of leaves if you'd like.  it's a particular cranesbill not that common and I think it has the nicest leaves for this use of the cranesbills I've seen.  I have other nice ones but the leaves are fleshier and have some hair so not that similar.  The freeze wasn't as bad as they predicted so the plant is fine.  I'll do a small test of putting some in brandy to see what that does in case that's the best way to ship them. Got any other ideas for how I could get leaves to you?  I know I can ship plant to you so that you'll have plenty to experiment with next year but it would be fun to have a mad scientist cohort experimenting with them this year.  I'm making Caerphilly today with the hopes of a natural rind that includes some of those leaves but I'm not sure how to go about it.  Gianaclis' book says to pat down the mold but not brush so that will help to not dislodge the leaves but I'm not sure how to get the good molds happening since I don't have a well innoculated cellar. I thought of adding PLA to the make but didn't......need something to get good molds growing...any hints/ideas anyone??????

What is the reason you dry your does off before rebreeding?  Most farms seem to dry off 2 months before next kidding.  I'm actually going to not rebreeding my 5 milking does and milk them through.  I'll just breed my 4 young does from this spring.  This is the first time I've gone for milking through and I hope it works well although it means no break from milking.  I had 7 does give birth last year and it was just too many babies, too many to disbud and too much shuffling around to kidding stalls, then regrouping, etc.  We dam raise with a lot of human contact to get friendly babies and 14 babies this spring was more than we could easily handle!   ;). I had told each doe  to have singles or twins but only 3 listened. 


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Offline Spellogue

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Re: leaf-wrapped Valencay-style question
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2012, 06:44:28 PM »
My family gets tired of milking right about the time the temperature drops, so we give the does, and ourselves a long break.  We get a lot of triplet, so we like them to bulk up a bit before their second trimester.  We started bottle raising a couple of years ago, that means we have to start milking right after they kid.  It'll be non-stop milking from April on.  As much as we miss the milk, we don't miss the milking in December. 

I just made a Caerphilly that I plan to wax tonight, just looking for an cast-off pan or something for a melting vessel.

As for natural mold growth others will know better how to encourage the most desirable strains.  For what it's worth, I have a tomme in the fridge that grew what it wanted to grow without any interference from me.  It's looking pretty nice.  I'm just trying to decide how long to let is go.
I can resist anything but temptation.      ~ Oscar Wilde

Offline Tiarella

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Re: leaf-wrapped Valencay-style question
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2012, 08:16:28 PM »
I hear you about appreciating a break in the milking!  I wish!!  I still have to separate the young does from their moms to fully wean them.  They still have access to nurse during the day although they are big.  I'm waiting for another stall/paddock combo to open up after some early winter butchering.  Then I'll wean them.  I'd love a break from milking but won't get one with milking through.  can't see a way around it though if I don't want to have trillions of babies again.

Do you have an idea for how I can prepare some of those leaves to get them to you?  And would you post a photo of your natural rind Caerphilly?  I seem to get PC and wild blues on my cheeses and I'm not sure what to do to lessen the wild blues (if that's appropriate) and attract other options.  That's also what concerns me about doing a leaf adorned natural rind Caerphilly.  I could mist it with PLA that I have.  ????

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Re: leaf-wrapped Valencay-style question
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2012, 07:24:23 PM »
It's me again......getting creative about leaf-wrapping these Valencay style cheeses.  I wanted to open one to check it out.  I noticed that one had a little bit of slipskin even though it's buddy in the same mini-cave didn't.  I had used a container that wasn't big enough for a lid to fit so I'd put a loose plastic bag over it with toothpicks in the cheese holding the bag off them.  It's there that the slipskin seems the most loose and an issue. 

So with a reason to open one I decided to try out the Redbud tree leaves I'd harvested and stored in brandy.  I patted the leaves dry and decided to experiment with how they might work if I had some small cheeses.  I cut slices of the Valencay style  (style but not shape.....these ones were fat pillars in shape) and those were still too big to wrap in these leaves  (leaves about 6"X6") so I cut them in half to make half rounds.  I wanted skewers that were long enough to go in one side and out the other to hold the leaf but had to settle for half toothpicks.  I like how the leaf stems are almost like little handles.

Any idea if these would further develop in the regular fridge?  Or in the wine fridge?  They no longer have the protection of a rind but they do have the leaf wrapping.  It will allow some air into the leaf package but not a lot.  This cheese is tasty now but not a lot of flavor except near the rind.