Author Topic: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold  (Read 5295 times)

Offline mightyMouse.tar.gz

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Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« on: October 23, 2012, 08:11:51 PM »
Greetings all,
I have finally moved my way into mold ripened cheese (brie specifically). I am looking to increase my cheese mold collection and want to get a few molds for making brie (and other similar cheeses). I made my first brie a couple of nights ago and used a couple of hoops I made.
I encountered a recipe which uses a beaker style mold for brie (IE closed bottom). Has anyone done a side by side comparison to see which method, hoop or beaker, is better? It seems to me that using a hoop would result in a stronger rind due to the air exposure. However, if you are salting the top and bottom of the cheese after forming, it seems to me the same effect would be achieved (the recipe called for salting this way).

Any thoughts?
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Offline iratherfly

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Re: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2012, 11:10:11 PM »
You will need to look at this question in relation to the entire fabrication process of this cheese rather than the moulding alone.

Traditionally, Camembert, Brie, Coulommiers etc., are made in hoops rather than moulds. The hoops have weeping holes, which enable the whey to escape under pressure as to prevent whey pockets.  More importantly, this keeps the draining direction going downwards.  This works with a fragile acidic curd. Remember that in this fabrication the curd is either uncut or cut to vertical strips. The only thing that cut it horizontally is the scoop itself. The moulding is done in layers with the scoop so the curd structure is maintained and it is large and wet.  To top it off, the final cheese should shape in a form factor that works for surface ripening.
...In other words, this is an entire ecosystem of practices and substances that works together; the choice of mould is not a standalone element but a part of a bigger picture.

Of course, you can create a Brie using bottomed mould. The risk is that it drains from the sides and that it doesn't drain fast enough from the bottom and whey gets trapped longer than it should below the curd.  As the curd knots, it will grow a skin which is the start of the rind. If it begins to grow before a sufficient amount of whey has drained -you will end up with trapped whey = cheese that's too moist. This is often the culprit in common brie defects such as slip skin and ammonia, overgrowth of geo and receding PC.  The larger the cheese is - the more significant of an issue this becomes (because smaller cheese is more likely do dry faster throughout). If you make a small version like Camembert medallions and dry it properly, you will probably be okay.

Offline mightyMouse.tar.gz

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Re: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2012, 11:14:54 PM »
Thanks iratherfly! Very thorough response!
// bad cheese exception handling
try { Cheese myCheese = new Gouda(); } catch (NastyCheeseException e) { throw new CultureContaminationException(); }

Offline iratherfly

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Re: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2012, 11:18:31 PM »
Anytime!

You should take a minute to introduce yourself in the intro section. Tell everyone who you are and where are you, and what cheese you are making or want to make. Makes it easier to get good responses to your posts!

Offline mightyMouse.tar.gz

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Re: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2012, 10:17:15 AM »
Oh yeah, good call.
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Offline Shazah

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Re: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2012, 03:24:55 PM »
I tried a Brie/Cambozola experiment a few weeks ago using a Brie mould and 4 x Camembert moulds, all in the beaker style you refer to (they all had a bottom)

I read on here that in days gone by, the curds were not cut for this style of cheese so opted to try and just gently scoop the curds into the moulds.  I was a little uncertain if they were going to be too wet but I turned them daily, in their moulds and let them sit at cool room temperature for 24 hours.

I also tried the method of just sprinkling the Roquefort mold over half the curds, then topping to fill the mould.  I pierced them after they were firm enough on about day three and then again yesterday to try and re-open the holes after they were covered by their white, bloomy loveliness.  I couldn't resist a taste of some of the paste left on the spike.  It was very buttery with a beautiful blue flavour, so again I am filled with eager anticipation to try these out in a few weeks.

I'm delighted that I've been able to get two styles of cheese from one make of 11 litres.  Only time will tell if I've been successful in keeping the blue out of my Brie  ???
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Offline iratherfly

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Re: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2012, 02:59:23 PM »
How is that cheese aging thus far?

Offline Shazah

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Re: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2012, 09:09:21 PM »
Hi Yoav
My little Cams had a beautiful creamy texture but sadly, hardly any blue flavour at all.  Occasionally I would get a slight blue taste near the rind but nothing to speak of.  I was really pleased with the texture though as I did worry they might suffer from slipcoat.

I haven't yet tried the Brie.  I have it ageing in the cold fridge.  When I checked it yesterday it felt a little firm but I will open it up next weekend and see how it tastes.

I hope everything has settled down for you now, and your wife and business are better after the storm.

Cheers
Sharon
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Offline Tiffany

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Re: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2012, 10:56:22 PM »
I made brie hoops with 6" pvc pipe.  Drilled holes and viola!  They work perfectly.  I made the somewhat deeper, as I fill up, and cut in half or thirds for more cheese from same batch.  As soon as it pulls away from sides I take it out and cut to aging thickness.  I also do this with my cams.  They turn out wonderful.
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Offline iratherfly

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Re: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2012, 03:21:52 AM »
You really shouldn't be using PVC; it should never come in contact with food.  Frankly, a commercial creamery-grade, food-safe Brie hoop, imported from Europe - costs less than the milk of a single Brie -and can be used daily for 15 years. (not to mention it gives you proper drainage speed and makes a beautiful cheese). Isn't it worth it?


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Offline Tiffany

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Re: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2012, 06:18:51 AM »
I am not producing commercially, line them with cellophane as well.  Last camembert molds I ordered were pvc from a cheese supplier.  If and when I do my licensing I will change molds, not all home cheese makers can afford fancy molds, sad but true I know. lining with celophane works very well. I just pop holes in it.  I wouldn't use it for a cheese that was gonna be in the mold very long tho. 
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Offline iratherfly

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Re: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2012, 01:32:47 AM »
Who is the cheese supplier sells moulds from PVC? Sounds like a hobbyist that hack them out of building construction materials from The Home Depot in a total disregard to food safety.

I realize not everyone has budget for fancy moulds but how cheap can the hacked PVC construction materials possibly be?  I mean, in my business I sell Camembert hoops, (imported from France) for $8.99. The Ø200mm (Ø8") Brie hoops (from Italy) go for $13.79. They are industrial food-grade and made to last many years in the daily abusive creamery environment, taking on repeated boiling, commercial dishwashing and chemical sanitizing.

Most hobbyists who don't own their own animals pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $6-$16 per gallon of creamline or raw milk.

Cellophane is a good food grade material. It may be not totally optimized for Camembert/Brie but some people poke a few needle holes in it to improve air flow without drying the cheese and it can work well and cheap.  Do you get it as sheets or bags?

Offline mightyMouse.tar.gz

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Re: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2012, 10:38:30 AM »
Who is the cheese supplier sells moulds from PVC? Sounds like a hobbyist that hack them out of building construction materials from The Home Depot in a total disregard to food safety.


Well... not trying to point the finger but the only supplier that I am aware of (who appears to have since stopped carrying PVC based moulds) is Steve Shapson (thecheesemaker.com). I have not seen those PVC moulds on his page in a while- I think he only makes Dairythene moulds available now. As I recall, he stated on his site that he did look into the food safety of using PVC and was told that it is not approved for commercial purposes but OK for home use. I am not sure what that means exactly and would never let food come anywhere near PVC, but I do believe him when he says he checked into it (Still did not convince me to go that route).

I am not producing commercially, line them with cellophane as well.  Last camembert molds I ordered were pvc from a cheese supplier.  If and when I do my licensing I will change molds, not all home cheese makers can afford fancy molds, sad but true I know. lining with celophane works very well. I just pop holes in it.  I wouldn't use it for a cheese that was gonna be in the mold very long tho. 

You know your situation better than I do, I do not mean to speculate on it, but I thought I would mention that I payed about $15 for my first 2 lb hard cheese mold with follower. Served me very well. A kadova mould is a bit out of my price range right now but $15 I can handle.

I see that thecheesemaker.com also has a Camembert mould for $14: http://www.thecheesemaker.com/products/Camembert-and-Brie-Moulds.html shipping included of course. I have some moulds I made out of reused food grade containers (my two brie moulds are home made).
// bad cheese exception handling
try { Cheese myCheese = new Gouda(); } catch (NastyCheeseException e) { throw new CultureContaminationException(); }

Offline mightyMouse.tar.gz

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Re: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2012, 12:00:45 AM »
Well, I am happy to report that the two bries I started several weeks ago are really starting to soften up. I decided to take a sample slice out to see the progress. Definitely coming along nicely! Nice creamy flavor- near the rind it has that really nice mellow brie taste. The inner part is still a bit underripe but I think another week or so, they should be golden.
// bad cheese exception handling
try { Cheese myCheese = new Gouda(); } catch (NastyCheeseException e) { throw new CultureContaminationException(); }

Offline Schnecken Slayer

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Re: Brie hoop vs. beaker mold
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2012, 02:17:39 AM »
Any pics of your brie mightyMouse?   :D

Also, can anyone post links of studies showing PVC is of concern?
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