Author Topic: Emmentaler lets try this again  (Read 10076 times)

Offline Boofer

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #165 on: February 15, 2013, 07:12:13 PM »
Nicely sharp, Swiss tasting cheese
Looking at the only pic that isn't overblown, STA75194, it looks like you've made a fine Parm. ;) Kudos.

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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #166 on: February 15, 2013, 10:32:09 PM »
Looks good, the texture looks spot on for a young Alpkäse.

Does it have the proprionic flavor at all? Or does it have the sharp nuttiness and spiciness of the swiss, without the proprionic overtones? Knowing this will help me to tell you why it did not swell and develop eyes.

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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #167 on: February 15, 2013, 10:35:05 PM »
Also,

These things need air. A washed rind should never be kept in a box. It needs to have a steady supply of oxygen in order to live (and the rind needs to continue living and changing even after you are done washing it, as it trasforms through a number of stages into the final form.) You get heavy Ammonia smells because the rind can't breathe. It might put off ammonia anyway, I don't know (we never keep them in a box) or it could be that some ammonia-producing bugs are kicking in when the oxygen is depleted.
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Offline H-K-J

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #168 on: February 15, 2013, 10:54:20 PM »
I am in agreement ALP, just need to adjust a thing or two but  whatever it is it is lovely  ^-^
for a 14 week try MMMMMmmmMmmMmMmm 
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Offline H-K-J

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #169 on: February 15, 2013, 11:01:47 PM »
Looks good, the texture looks spot on for a young Alpkäse.

Does it have the proprionic flavor at all? Or does it have the sharp nuttiness and spiciness of the swiss, without the proprionic overtones? Knowing this will help me to tell you why it did not swell and develop eyes.

I don't think the PS over tones are there more of a provolone? love it as it is just need to adjust to what I want, OH but it is a lovely cheese :D
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Offline H-K-J

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #170 on: February 16, 2013, 09:55:17 AM »
Well if you want it I have Tim Smith's recipe for Emmental and it's certainly different from anything I've seen so far.

AL, I would love to see that.

Went to the library yesterday and checked out Cheese it by Cole Dawson, I will be reading this today
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Offline H-K-J

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #171 on: February 16, 2013, 05:29:31 PM »
I went back through all of my Swiss type cheese recipe's today, and reviewed this recipe, not very happy with myself at the moment >:(
I don't know where I got the idea I needed only a 1/8 tsp  Proprioni shermanii for a 5 gallon batch, every one of them say at least 1/8 or more for a
two gallon batch. even the recommendations from the cheese maker say's 1/8th for two gallons, and now I am finding recipes that are using 1 tsp. for a
2 gallon make, now being totally confused, any recommendations out there for 5 gallons :-\
And I wondered why I didn't have any swelling or eyes ::)
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Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #172 on: February 16, 2013, 05:36:21 PM »
I'm going with Tim Smiths on my next one.  Pretty sure I'll have eyes. LOL

Offline H-K-J

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #173 on: February 16, 2013, 05:41:52 PM »
How many gallons are you going to make up? and if it is 4 gallons will you use 2 tsp. in it?
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Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #174 on: February 16, 2013, 05:46:10 PM »
Yes and yes.  Unless Alp tells me something different.  I may also go with a 6 pounder.  Started opening the 4 pounders and they are going fast.


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Offline H-K-J

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #175 on: February 16, 2013, 05:50:40 PM »
Have you opened your Emmental yet?
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Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #176 on: February 16, 2013, 05:51:49 PM »
No, still have another month.
 :'(

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #177 on: February 16, 2013, 06:22:54 PM »
Here is the recipe I used.  Calls for a teaspoon of culture for 2 gallons of milk.  I did a 4 gallon make but only used 1 teaspoon of PS.

Offline Boofer

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #178 on: February 16, 2013, 08:04:10 PM »
Here is the recipe I used.  Calls for a teaspoon of culture for 2 gallons of milk.  I did a 4 gallon make but only used 1 teaspoon of PS.
Interesting recipe, especially this line "Stir to homogenize the milk, ". No floc technique. A 24-hour brine for a two gallon cheese...? Expect the cheese to be salty. Too much salt is bad for the PS's health. Also, ordinarily when the cheese comes out of the brine, it undergoes the Cool Phase which helps to dry and harden the rind for about a week. Then it undergoes the Warm Phase. At least that's the process I've been following. ;)

IMHO, I think you guys are missing the point here with the Propionic shermanii dosage. Here is a sampling of Emmental usage:
  • 200 Easy Homemade Cheese recipes - 3/8 tsp in 4 gallons/16 qts (page 224)
  • The Cheesemaker's Manual - 1/2 tsp in 30 liters (page 185)
  • Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking - 1/4 tsp in 12 gallons (page 278)
From Danlac:

"Possibilities to enhance eye formation:
*   higher inoculation amount of propionic acid bacteria type 2
*   higher scalding temperature up to 40 - 41 °C
*   shorter salting time with a weaker salt concentration
*   higher pH after salting: not under pH 5.30 - 5.40
*   shorter ripening time in cool storage, with a higher temperature, e.g. 7 days    at 11 - 14 °C
*   longer ripening time in warm storage, e.g. 5 - 6 weeks at 22 - 24 °C
"

FWIW....

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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: Emmentaler lets try this again
« Reply #179 on: February 16, 2013, 08:31:42 PM »
ps will run into trouble if the ph gets out of its range. this happens usually in a cheese like this by too long a warm period in the press.
i believe that some people overdo the whole pressing under whey idea. on many cheeses, this wont have any pronounced effects, but on a ps type cheese it will drive the ph down, which is bad for the ps. you only need to keep it warm for the first hour or so of pressing, after that we want it to cool down and slow down the growth of acidifying bacteria
also about scalding temperature, this is important for the texture of the curd, makes a harder curd resulting in larger eyes
the amounts of the culture here are not that critical.
adding more culture will not mean better eyes.
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