Author Topic: Bigger cheeses from smaller pots--making curds in batches and combining  (Read 629 times)

Offline CheeseDoc

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I'm trying to find the best way to make curds in two batches.  I started by trying the Emmental recipe in Debra Amrein-Boyes book.  In a nutshell, you make a first batch of curds, put them in the prepared mold, and cover them with a clean cloth to keep them warm.  You then add the a second batch of curds to the mold.  You mix the curds from both batches, press lightly, flip and press hard overnight.  I tried this recipe, but it didn't work out well.  By the time the second batch of curds were done (some two hours later,) the first batch had knitted together into a unitary mass.  I broke up the mass (with some difficulty) and mixed it with the second batch.  I pressed the curds for 16 hours, but the result was a cheese with many voids between the curds, totally unsuitable for creating the signature eyes of an Emmental.

I'm wondering if anyone has successfully made a cheese from two batches of curds.


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Online Alpkäserei

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Re: Bigger cheeses from smaller pots--making curds in batches and combining
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2012, 08:02:59 PM »
With a pressed cheese, it would only be possible if you made the batches at the same time in separate pots. There may be 'tricks' to make an Alpine cheese such as Emmentaler like you are describing, but these would not result in a real Emmentaler.

This is because there are chemical changes occurring during the time of pressing. The cheese is acidifying and the curds are fusing together. If you break it apart, you will not be able to get it back together. You could somehow mill them maybe like you do for cheddar, but again you would not then be making a true Emmentaler, maybe an Emmencheddar  ;)

But again, you could cook the curd in 2 pots at the same time and then mix them together in one mass to go to the press. At least that is my view of the situation
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Offline linuxboy

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Re: Bigger cheeses from smaller pots--making curds in batches and combining
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2012, 08:05:14 PM »
You can't, not possible with any alpine styles to do what you describe. At best, you could run vats side by side and drain at the same time so you form one curd mass by combining them, Like Alpkaserei suggested.
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Offline H-K-J

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Re: Bigger cheeses from smaller pots--making curds in batches and combining
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2012, 08:40:38 PM »
I have wondered this same thing my understanding of Emmentaler is the curd needs to come from the same batch.
I have a 5 gallon pot and aint noway I am going to try two batches at the same time and try to mix them. I need a bigger vat ;)
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Online Alpkäserei

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Re: Bigger cheeses from smaller pots--making curds in batches and combining
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 09:00:26 PM »
You could come by and use our 40 gallon vat. ;)

And it's copper too, cheese should always be made in copper.
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Offline H-K-J

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Re: Bigger cheeses from smaller pots--making curds in batches and combining
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 09:16:05 PM »
I will be over shortly LOL ;D
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Offline CheeseDoc

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Re: Bigger cheeses from smaller pots--making curds in batches and combining
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2012, 12:03:04 AM »
It's a little disconcerting to think that one of Debra Amrein-Boyes' 200 Easy Homemade Cheese Recipes doesn't work as described.  I've made several cheeses from this book with success.  I thought I might have done something wrong with the Emmental recipe.  I realize the two batch method won't create the a perfect Emmentaler. But if it creates something good to eat, I'll be pleased.  I might try the two batch method one more time, perhaps keeping the first batch of curds in a cool diluted whey solution until the second batch is ready.  Experimentation gets expensive when you have to by 8 gallons of milk each time.

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Bigger cheeses from smaller pots--making curds in batches and combining
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2012, 12:28:47 AM »
Here's what makes emmentaler work:
- A proper cut and cook process to create small curds with even moisture
- A settling under whey to fuse the curd together while it is still hot
- A press, either in a prepress table under whey or in the alpine tradition, under a screw press while the curds are still hot. The room during this time is super warm.
- Then salt schedule is for minimal salting, targetting .8% salt for good eyes

It is this press schedule that creates the eyes by creating very few nucleation sites. The form factor, salt, and aging all make a difference, too, of course.

if you are milling curds or waiting or doing anything other than the classic make, it makes for a cheese other than an alpine. Meaning, does not make emmentaler.

if you keep the curds in a cool whey solution without fusing, it won't work. If you must do sequential vats, then make two wheels and fuse the wheels together after.
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Online Al Lewis

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Re: Bigger cheeses from smaller pots--making curds in batches and combining
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2012, 12:35:47 AM »
When I did my 6 gallon make I used two pots at the same time.  Did 4 gallons in one and 2 gallons in the other.  Worked fine.  Very easy to split the recipe too.