Author Topic: Raw milk safety  (Read 2320 times)

Offline tal_d1

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2012, 02:37:39 AM »
Thanks for all the reply's guys but i feel confuse and do not know if i should use
this milk. I have a very good source that sell his milk daily to the biggest dairy in Israel and
if his milk will be found by the dairy as unclean he will not get money for this milk and he will
pay big forfeit. From my side i am doing my best to keep everything clean. But the good source of milk
and my cleaning will not assure that the cheese will be safe for eating.
On the other hand i never heard about someone how died from milk product or from
other food that might contain Listeria.
In Israel the Ministry of Health took over 10,000 samples of food from the biggest markets
and found Listeria at 12.5% of the samples. Listeria  found at 27% of the chicken products, 15% at the fish, 9% at
salads, 7% at beef and 2% at milk products.
So from this test i understand that Listeria is found in my every day food! but i never heard at the
news that something happened to someone.
In France, Raw milk is standard and also in other parts of Europe and i do not believe that all those
cheese made by small cheese makers at home farms in France are free of Listeria.


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Offline Schnecken Slayer

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2012, 02:53:16 AM »
Hi Tal

This is not a simple topic.

The milk you buy may, or may not, contain anything harmful. It is hard to tell.
Here we have to buy milk from shops that is pasteurised and homogenised and generally safe.

Without testing your milk supplies we cannot say if it is safe to use.

Buy the best quality milk you can and see how it goes.

-Bill
One day I will add something here...

Offline Tomer1

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2012, 08:01:17 AM »
Quote
if his milk will be found by the dairy as unclean he will not get money for this milk and he will
pay big forfeit
Tal, this is not how modern mass production system work.  the milk doesnt need to be "clean" enough to be used for raw milk use or cheese production but only "clean enough" - hasnt started naturally acidify dou to poor storage.
even "bad milk" can be made into safe to drink milk  or gvina levana\cottege. 
so the possibility of not getting paid because of milk quality is very unlikely. he needs to accidently dump some sanitizer into his milk or something to have it label bad. or maybe have sick animals producing milk with elevated levels of mastitis.

By the time this milk turns into cheese it can be heat treated two or even three times to ensure its "dead" depending on time scedual and storage. (it can be heat treated on recieving the milk and just before its made into cheese in closed vats)


I Thermize in case of soft ripened cheeses and take my chances, I use raw for prolonged aged cooked cheeses.
I have no idea how good or bad the milk is.
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Offline tal_d1

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2012, 11:38:48 AM »
Hi Tomer, i use to work at cowshed for years so i know how its work. maybe the
word "clean" is not the right one.

Online steffb503

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2012, 11:54:08 AM »
Sounds like you have doubts, Heat treat first.


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Offline tal_d1

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2012, 05:22:12 AM »
This is not the point. The point is that it seems that many of the non milk
product that we are buying from the supermarket contains Listeria.

Offline bbracken677

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2012, 07:50:39 AM »
Actually, Listeria is present in something like 10% of humans, naturally occurring.

Offline klschnepp

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2012, 04:08:14 AM »
Tal-  as you can see, this is a hot topic.  As you have noticed, opinions around this often varies by region.  In the UK, raw milk is legal and easy to obtain and many of us here believe that it is a great choice for cheese making.

No milk is or will ever be 100% "safe" and I might recommend reading up a bit more on the relevant issues and various pathogens so you can make the right choice for you since, as someone else said, there is no simple answer to "safe" or "not safe".   I don't know how much you plan to produce (because if it is not much, this would be a bit cheeky) but one thing that might help is asking your farmer about his or her testing protocols.  IMHO, understanding herd management is the right place to look if you are sourcing directly from the farm.   


 

Offline tal_d1

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2012, 01:15:25 AM »
I decided not to take a risk and to pasteurize the milk although i will
make with it long age cheese only. (6 months and more).

Offline botanist

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2012, 03:37:55 PM »
I decided not to take a risk and to pasteurize the milk although i will
make with it long age cheese only. (6 months and more).

Perhaps, tal_d1, you could contact an expert who is now at my university, but used to oversee commercial cheese production in Israel.  He is Dr. Moshe Rosenberg http://www.foodscience.ucdavis.edu/people/faculty/mrosenberg
before goats, store bought milk = chevre & feta, with goats, infinite possibilities, goatie love, lotta work cleaning out the barn!


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Offline linuxboy

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2012, 04:04:36 PM »
Lol, Moshe will tell you to treat the milk :). There's no reason to him to have unpasteurized anything. We all have our biases :)
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Offline bbracken677

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2012, 04:09:21 PM »
Unless you treat the milk with a gentle process (145F for 30 min), there is little point in buying the milk raw....at least at the price I pay.

Offline Tomer1

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2012, 05:54:04 PM »
Quote
Unless you treat the milk with a gentle process (145F for 30 min), there is little point in buying the milk raw....at least at the price I pay.
Unlike in canada\US, we dont pay "extra" for raw milk as its not regulated what so every by the state. (Not sure if its even suppose to be available to the public, its a sort of a loop hole as farmers move most of their milk to one of the 3 major co-ops)
We accually buy it for much cheaper (almost half the price of standart 72c heat treated milk sold in supermarkets packaged in either plastic jugs or bags)  directly from farmer.  I pay about  70c\liter.
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Offline bbracken677

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2012, 07:09:56 PM »
hah! thats what I pay for h/p milk...and then 3 times that for raw! Holy cow lol

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Raw milk safety
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2012, 07:15:57 PM »
Yeah, my raw milk is $7.00 a gallon.  Store bought is $2.50.