Author Topic: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind  (Read 3666 times)

Offline Brandnetel

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Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« on: November 29, 2012, 07:09:15 AM »
Hi folks -

So, after my 2nd Cam attempt in October, I decided to try a different variation in the white mold world. In brief, I kept the make process from iratherfly's Cam recipe, but used the washing and aging sequence from Boofer's Reblochon recipe. Why did I do this? I guess after two Cam attempts that came out similar (not generally unpleasant, but too dry, no paste softening, some bitterness) I wanted to try something in a more stinky/washed rind direction. I kept the Cam make because I figured I was already having moisture loss problems, and needed to maximize my chances of getting something that didn't end up looking like a semi-hard cheese.

The biggest difference,though, is that we went with aging boxes within my mini-fridge. After having past success in getting the main fridge up to 80-85% RH, for some reason lately I cannot get it above 60% max. However, for this one the aging boxes have done a nice job of keeping it 83-87% which while not the ideal up to 95% is a big step in the right direction. However the temp has varied by up to 5 degrees depending on where the boxes are in the fridge, and I also was slow to get enough for all the cheeses. So the upshot is that the aging conditions have varied considerably among the 5 cheeses I got out of this 3.5 gallon batch.

Right now I am two and a half weeks in to maturing them, and their conditions range from almost no geo wrinkles all the way to major slipskin. B. Linens stink is strong (gf is not a fan and it is even getting to me, lol) and several of the cheeses are also expressing some ammonia smell. Current conditions are 48-52 degrees and 85% RH on average, I have been flipping and washing daily more or less for a week or so.

I will post the recipe, some pics and notes for more detail, but as usual I am eager to hear the feedback of this erudite group on my latest experiment!

Milk
2.5 Gallons Sky-Top Farms Whole Cow's Milk (8g fat/cup)
1.0 Gallons Sky-Top Farms Low Fat Cow's Milk (2 g fat/cup)

Cultures
1 pkt C101 Mesophilic starter, lot #1211 (From N.E.C.)
1 pkt C20 Thermophilic starter (From N.E.C)
1/16 tsp C7 Geotrichum Candidum (1/64 tsp per 2 gal scaled up even more) (From N.E.C.)
1/16 tsp Brevibacterium Linens
1/8 tsp Flora Danica

Rennet/Other
1 tsp Liquid Rennet (animal), diluted in 1/2 cup water
1/2 tsp Calcium Chloride (approx ¼ tsp per 2 gallons of milk)

Process
Raise milk to 88-90 degrees, add cultures
Target 30 min. ripening time or pH of 6.55
Add rennet and calcium chloride
Set for flocculation time x 2.5 total time (example: if 10 min floc, then 25 min total)
Cut curd into 1” squares, let rest for 5 minutes
Stir very gently, then let rest 5 minutes again
Ladle into molds and allow to settle under own weight.
Flip 1x per hour for 5 hours, let sit to approx 8 hrs total, then salt and put in 'cave'.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 07:25:14 AM by Brandnetel »
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Offline george (MaryJ)

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Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2012, 09:22:38 AM »
Pictures, pictures!!   :)
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Offline Brandnetel

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Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2012, 08:14:31 PM »
OK, here are some shots from about 1 week in . . . .






Things have changed a lot since then, mostly in the direction of worse slipskin all around with tears and in one case, practically hanging off the cheese. But in these you can see already the variation in geo wrinkling, and one significant rind wound, which has since re-molded over.
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Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2012, 09:27:00 PM »
Almost looks like basket cheese.

Offline Brandnetel

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Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2012, 11:41:38 AM »
These are now about 4 weeks in. Conditions have varied, but mostly I've been able to keep them about the right temp I think and humidity has been much better for me than on recent efforts. Slipskin has continued and gotten really bad on the sides of all but one of the 5 cheeses.

Also, there was an . .. .  .err . . .  ."incident" about a week ago and I dropped two of the cheeses while replacing in the cage. One made it out with only minor cracks etc. but the other was in a bad state, with liquified paste oozing out and about half of the cheese essentially demolished. So I cut it open and tasted it. As you would imagine from my slipskin reports, there was about a 1/2" liquid layer below the rind and then the center was still solid. Center was OK to pleasant, the liquid paste was delicious and much of the shredded rind good too, except where there was a little too much ammonia. So I have that one in the fridge and am forging ahead with the others.

I did my last wash today, will post some pics to update. I am hopeful that if I cut the saggy edge rind of the cheeses the centers may be salvageable. I'm just concerned because there has been significant ammonia over the last 2 weeks. I've taken the cheeses out every day or two to try to let it dissipate, but frankly they are so stinky it is difficult to bear (!) Would love to have some feedback here as to whether these should be considered a total loss, or are in any way dangerous to eat. The consistence reminds me of holding a raw burger patty in your hand, in terms of general softness. I am inspired as this is the farthest I have gotten into this world, but . . . .

Also, I guess I am ready to 'package' these for 2 more weeks of cold-aging per iratherfly's Reblochon regimen. I have not able to find true wax paper, and was thinking of going with parchment paper, then a perforated plastic bag overlay. Would be interested in any thoughts on the advisability of that, too!
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Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 11:57:25 AM »
Which b. linens did you use?  Only asking as I would like to try this and need to order some. ???

(SR3) Brevibacterium linens: bright orange color - This strain is slightly less aromatic than LR.
(freeze-dried direct set/DVI-Direct Vat Innoculation).

(LR) Brevibacterium linens: light orange color
(freeze-dried direct set/DVI-Direct Vat Innoculation)

(ARN) Brevibacterium linens: orange and ivory - Arthrobacter nicotianae, geotrichum candidum: specific blend for flavor of Normandy cheese and a balanced surface flora between p. candidum and the acid-sensitive bacteria; two types of B. linens are used in ARN. (freeze-dried direct set/DVI-Direct Vat Innoculation).
 
(PLA) Brevibacterium linens: Arthrobacter nicotianae, Debaryomyces hansenii, Geotrichum candidum: Complex blend for aspect and flavor of the main European (or French) style cheeses.
 
(FR2) Brevibacterium linens: Bright orange color, high aromatic.

Offline Brandnetel

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Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2012, 12:04:16 PM »

About 2.5 weeks in, showing a little variation.


Bad slipskin on the sides and even the top is very delicate and feels liquidy beneath


This is the progress of the one from the photos above where the rind stuck to the mat early and ripped. Geo has filled in the gaps a bit.


You can see how much the slipskin sides have moved around and bunched up in a few areas.


I think this one is in the very best shape so far. Most sturdy and only minor slipskin. I was kind of able to "re-stick" the side rind back to the paste by pressing on it over time.


These last two are moist becuase they were taken just now after last rind washing.


This is just a mess. Picking it up feels like lifting a raw burger patty wrapped in a dishcloth.
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Offline Brandnetel

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Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2012, 12:12:52 PM »
Which b. linens did you use?  Only asking as I would like to try this and need to order some. ???

(SR3) Brevibacterium linens: bright orange color - This strain is slightly less aromatic than LR.
(freeze-dried direct set/DVI-Direct Vat Innoculation).

(LR) Brevibacterium linens: light orange color
(freeze-dried direct set/DVI-Direct Vat Innoculation)


(ARN) Brevibacterium linens: orange and ivory - Arthrobacter nicotianae, geotrichum candidum: specific blend for flavor of Normandy cheese and a balanced surface flora between p. candidum and the acid-sensitive bacteria; two types of B. linens are used in ARN. (freeze-dried direct set/DVI-Direct Vat Innoculation).
 
(PLA) Brevibacterium linens: Arthrobacter nicotianae, Debaryomyces hansenii, Geotrichum candidum: Complex blend for aspect and flavor of the main European (or French) style cheeses.
 
(FR2) Brevibacterium linens: Bright orange color, high aromatic.

Al, I want to say LR. I bought this from New England Cheesemaking. Here is the information on the manfuacturer's label: Choozit LR LYO 10 D / Corynebacteriae. NEC has added their own sticker that says: C10 Brevibacterium Linens (Red Mold).

This is my first use of this culture. So far in this batch it has resulted in a really pungent and strong feety cheesy aroma. However I have not noted much color contribution. If anything, there is just a faint light orange cast to the rind in the most washed spots.
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Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2012, 12:35:39 PM »
Thanks for the reply.  I was thinking about trying the SR3 from The Cheesemaker.com.  Still trying to see everyone else's results being choosing one though.  Wish I could get my camemberts to turn out that soft.

Offline Brandnetel

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Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2012, 12:48:23 PM »
For me, after two too-hard Cam attempts, the secret appears to be using a ripening box within my cheese fridge to maintain high RH. I have been able to keep them in the 85-90% RH range for the last few weeks, and I think that really did it. Paste getting runny, as you will note from my entries above, is still a challenge although the outer portions of these have effectively liquified.

I don't know why I keep coming back to talking about burgers here, but it really is like the outside of the cheese is 'burned' from over-ripening, and the interior is still 'raw' in a pre-gooification state. I want to keep trying to get closer to that classic Brie/Cam overall gel-like quality to the paste that is consistent throughout. Even if I can't salvage any cheeses in the current batch, it has been a worthwhile experience.
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Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2012, 12:54:32 PM »
My cheese cave is a constant 85% RH so I have no idea why mine didn't get that soft but they were my first cheeses so I'll pay closer attention to detail next time and hope for better results.  They still came out incredibly delicious, just not as soft as I wanted.

Offline george (MaryJ)

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Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2012, 06:05:48 AM »
Brandnetel, I didn't actually read your recipe the first time around, but I did after the question about the b. linens, and I noticed that you used two packs of NEC starter (one of each) for 3-1/2 gallons milk.  I use ONE pack for 3 gallons.  I haven't had enough coffee yet to figure out if/how this probably huge over-acidification might be contributing to your aging problems, but it's a thought.
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Offline bbracken677

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Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2012, 08:38:50 AM »
My cheese cave is a constant 85% RH so I have no idea why mine didn't get that soft but they were my first cheeses so I'll pay closer attention to detail next time and hope for better results.  They still came out incredibly delicious, just not as soft as I wanted.

Camemberts need a higher humidity than 85%...I would recommend you place yours in some kind of container that is slightly open...vary the opening to achieve a 90-95% relative humidity level.

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2012, 10:27:39 AM »
Camemberts need a higher humidity than 85%...I would recommend you place yours in some kind of container that is slightly open...vary the opening to achieve a 90-95% relative humidity level.

Thanks BB, I've done that with my cambozola.  Went out and got a container just for it.

Offline Brandnetel

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Re: Brandnetel's White Mold Cheese #3 / Washed Rind
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 07:12:51 PM »
Well, so I have been tasting the one of these that I cut open after the dropped cheese incident two weeks or so back. It tastes nice and the paste even seems to keep softening and becoming more gel-like. I have not really been eating the rind which is very sticky and pungent. The taste is good, intensely ripe Cam-esque with a little bitterness in the finish, and there is still a perceptible ammonia odor esp. when I first take it out. But afterwards I am finding my stomach is protesting a little bit, not sure if it is just because I am anxiously focused on the possible side effects. I am a little uncomfortable for maybe an hour after eating - that can't be good.

The remaining 4 cheeses are in the fridge at about 39 degrees for 2 weeks now. Stinky but they seem to have less ammonia, although frankly I haven't pressed my nose to them to check closely. The rind is kind of drying out, turning a little darker beige in color and I notice small brownish areas developing around the edges.

So, still very much up in the air as to whether they should be chucked wholesale or I should continue to open and try them. This would really have to be by myself at this point, at least for first tastings - I couldn't see foisting these on anyone else knowing they might be unpleasant experiences. It's frustrating as the paste really seems to have gotten to (or perhaps far beyond . . . ) a good point of development on many levels.
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