Author Topic: A response to Alp  (Read 524 times)

Offline andreark

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A response to Alp
« on: October 25, 2014, 12:52:21 PM »
Your post on washed rinds was very interesting so I tried it, , , on an epoisses type.  This cheese is now over 5 weeks old and never actually got to the gooey stage. (I have tried these many times and all previous rinds got VERY gooey.)   These cheeses (4) got to a rather wet and sticky stage but not gooey.  It is now a lovely shade of orange and the rind is only slightly tacky.  Since it never actually got to the smooshy stage, I don't know how it will mature.  But I guess we'll see.  I'll post in a few weeks with the results.

andrea

Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: A response to Alp
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2014, 05:15:21 PM »
SOrry I am only now responding.


The main point of washing is to prepare the rind for aging, so it will not mold or crack. If you have that (which I should think you) you are good. I am actually always trying to develop a reliable method of making my rinds thinner.

Offline andreark

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Re: A response to Alp
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2014, 05:07:00 PM »
Well it's been quite a while since my first post to you.  The cheese shown in the photo LOOKED promising, but it never ripened (softened) properly.  I cut it open last week and it was hard as a rock. 

I don't have any problelms with a rennet type washed rind such as a Taleggio, it's just the semi-lactic, washed rind types that don't want to ripen well.  If they aren't getting hard as a rock, they develop a mushy rind.  I WANT A FIRM RIND LIKE THE 'REAL DEAL'.

Oh well, I'll try again after Christmas.  But meanwhile , , , if anyone out there has some idea of how to get that lovely 'gooey' interior on a semi-lactic type with a firm and dry rind, please let me know.

Thanks again Alp.

Andrea

Offline Stinky

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Re: A response to Alp
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2015, 06:01:26 PM »
It looks beautiful... How did you get the color so it was as strong as the sides on the top and bottom? My Emmental has nice color, but the top and bottom are barely pink.
It's probably a pathogen.

Offline andreark

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Re: A response to Alp
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2015, 12:56:32 PM »
Stinky,

These are the ingredients I used:

2 gallons Raw Jersey Milk
1/4 teaspoon Aroma B
1/8 tsp FR22 
Smidge ARN
1 Drop KL71
3 drops Chymax diluted in 1/4 cup non-chlorinated cool water

While it did develop a lovely color, it never softened.  I was using Alp's suggestion to keep the 'goo' level down.  Evidently the soft lactic types
need to develop a good deal of schmeir.  Next month I will use the same recipe and let the schmeir develop more. Maybe it will soften then.

andrea

Offline awakephd

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Re: A response to Alp
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2015, 09:16:15 AM »
Andrea, this is a bit of a shot in the dark, but ... here is a thought (or question) based on what I am reading (and still trying fully to absorb) from G. Caldwell's book: It appears that the softening of a mold-ripened cheese depends in part on getting the curd pH low enough (4.7 or so) to get rid of some calcium and its buffering effect. Perhaps the same thing is true of a bacteria-ripened (e.g., BL) cheese? If so, is your curd getting to a low enough pH?
-- Andy

Offline andreark

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Re: A response to Alp
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2015, 12:20:29 PM »
Thanks for the thought, but yes I take them to the proper ph.  I have a big Acorn meter like the one G. Caldwell suggests and it's a gem.

Have you made a washed rind lactic type?

andrea

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: A response to Alp
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2015, 01:51:37 PM »
andreark I found the shape of your cheese fascinating.  The epoisses I did all sank in the center.  Don't think it had anything to do with the misting of the cognac.  Wish mine had stayed like yours.  More to eat!!  LOL :P  P.S.  You seem to have used ingredients different from mine.  Perhaps that's the answer.  Here's the recipe I used from Mary Karlin's book.

2 gallons whole milk pasteurized
1/4 teaspoon Flora Danica (same as Meso II)
pinch of PLA
1/2 teaspoon Calcium chloride
4 drops liquid rennet diluted in 1/4 cup non-chlorinated cool water
salt
1 bottle Courvoisier Cognac

Warm milk to 86F
Sprinkle the Flora Danica and PLA over the top of the milk  and let sit to rehydrate for 5 minutes
Mix well using a whisk and a bottom to top motion
Maintain temperature and allow to ripen for 30 minutes
Add the Calcium Chloride and whisk for 1 minute
Add the rennet and whisk for 1 minute
Cover and allow to ripen for 4 hours at room temperature
Bring back to 86F and cut the curd into 3/4" pieces.
Let sit for 5 minutes
Gently ladle curd into molds lined with cloth
Let drain for 24 hours
Once they have shrunk to half their size flip every 2 hours
Remove from molds and cloth and rub with 1 teaspoon of salt each
Air dry at room temperature on a rack for 18 hours until the surface is dry to the touch
Ripen in cave at 56F and 85-90% RH flipping every 3 days for 6 weeks
When flipping wipe the entire surface with brine (1 teaspoon salt to 1/2 cup boiled water)
After first week alternate washes with brine and a 50/50 mixture of cognac and water
At 3 weeks switch to straight cognac washing every 3 days
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 10:52:32 AM by Al Lewis »
Making the World a Safer Place, One Cheese at a Time!  http://alewis64.blogspot.com/

Offline awakephd

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Re: A response to Alp
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2015, 06:37:07 PM »
Thanks for the thought, but yes I take them to the proper ph.  I have a big Acorn meter like the one G. Caldwell suggests and it's a gem.

Have you made a washed rind lactic type?

andrea

No, I haven't -- thus, a shot in the dark. :) Ah, well -- hopefully someone else will offer a diagnosis that is informed by actual experience!
-- Andy

Offline andreark

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Re: A response to Alp
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2015, 01:16:14 PM »
Al,

The difference in ingredients is because I use raw Jersey.  You don't need Cal. Chlor. if you use raw.  I also use a bit less Rennet for the same
reason.  The other differences are not so important. 

Developing a thick schmeir is evidently necessary to soften the cheese. I have never had an Epoisse type stay hard.  They may not have been
perfect, but they did get soft.

Thanks for your input,

Andrea