Author Topic: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?  (Read 3205 times)

Offline AndreasMergner

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First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« on: December 29, 2012, 08:31:32 AM »
I made this last night and pulled it out of the press this morning.

4 gal P/H whole milk
MA11
1/4 tab veg rennet
68 g salt

I used scasnerkay's recipe from here http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10234.msg76176.html#msg76176
I also looked at JeffHamm's recipe since they both had pH targets I could use with my new pH meter.  Scasnerkay's looked like it would end up a little moister, so I went with it.

4:50 Start of heat  T 60, pH 6.74
5:02 Sprinkle culture T 86
6:35 Add rennet pH 6.52
6:50 floc=15 x 3.5 = 53 minutes
7:43 cut curd to 3/8" pH 6.24
7:58 begin heating
8:02 temp reached (a little too fast) T 93 (overshot 91 degree target)
8:42 done cooking/stirring pH 5.88;  Drained in cheese cloth and pressed it lightly with hand
8:54 cut to 1" thick slices and stacked
9:08 flipped
9:19 This is where I realized that instead of warming the pot for just a minute on the burner, I had left it on for 11 minutes.  Grrr!  The cheese probably got to 120 degrees on the bottom.  Oh well, live and learn.  I cooled it in water and then milled it.
9:30 Put in 8" diameter mold and pressed at 20 lbs
10:00 Pressed at 50 lbs
10:40 Pressed at 180 lbs
11:45 Pressed at 360 lbs
08:30 Removed from press, pH of whey 5.03

Final pH target is 5.5, I believe.  I'm not sure if a final pH of 5.03 is bad or what I could have done differently so that it would be closer to the target...?



Knit is not too great or too horrible.  My final pressing PSI was ~7 PSI.  I could put more weight on my press next time or try to keep it warmer.  I'm not sure if I could ramp up the pressing weight faster...?  Luckily, this only has to survive 3 weeks or so of aging so not too worried about surface cracks and I can always vac bag it.


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Offline bbracken677

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Re: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2012, 09:17:22 AM »
It may be a bit low, but since it is a short aged cheese it probably will not have as much an effect as if you were going to age it out a few months. Jeff usually cuts into this at 3 weeks.

Offline AndreasMergner

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Re: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 09:36:07 AM »
What do I need to do to get a higher final pH next time?  Work faster?  Seems like all of the times are mapped out in the recipe.  Maybe it was because it got too hot in the pot when I made my big mess up?

Offline bbracken677

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Re: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2012, 11:02:48 AM »
If you have a pH meter, you will want to salt the curds at 5.4 or even perhaps a bit higher...I am thinking my next make I will be salting around 5.6 just to see the result.

Offline george (MaryJ)

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Re: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 06:17:43 AM »
I don't use a pH meter, probably never will, but isn't it a .1 drop that you're looking for after adding culture, and that's when you add the rennet?  'Cause it looks like you had a .22 drop before you added rennet, I'm wondering if that may have been just enough to speed everything else up for you.

If I'm wrong about the .1, just ignore me. ;)
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Offline AndreasMergner

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Re: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 09:08:52 AM »
I was using the "recipe" from here: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10234.msg76176.html#msg76176

...and it is confirmed with this excellent pdf in the library: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9385.0.html

bbracken: I was wondering if salt stopped the acid production or not. I though acid production could occur while pressing too.  I'm sure it stops after the moisture content drops to a certain point, but salting has got to greatly reduce the rate.  That pdf above states a milling (salting) pH of 5.7-5.8 for Caerphilly.

Should I call you Mary, Mary J or George??  :)  Maybe .1 pH drop is the way to go?  I don't know.  Probably makes more sense using a pH drop than going for a specific target pH.  That way the pH of the milk at the start won't cause an abnormally short or long ripening time for the LA bacteria.  If I had gone for a .1 drop, I would have shortened the time to pressing by about 50 minutes and I probably would have made my pH target of 5.5.


Offline bbracken677

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Re: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 09:46:00 AM »

bbracken: I was wondering if salt stopped the acid production or not. I though acid production could occur while pressing too.  I'm sure it stops after the moisture content drops to a certain point, but salting has got to greatly reduce the rate.  That pdf above states a milling (salting) pH of 5.7-5.8 for Caerphilly.


I was thinking of a different cheese....I recently made a parmesan that called for brining at 5.4. 

I cut open one of my more recent caerphillys yesterday and it was fine...no bitterness but also, surprisingly, I could not taste any salt and I was expecting a slight saltiness. I think next time I will up the dose of salt to get a slight salt bite.

Offline H-K-J

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Re: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 10:42:02 AM »
BB, Just let it sit around for awhile I bagged 1/2 of mine and had to reopen so I could have some of it after a few more days (gave away the first half)
the wife made melted cheese sandwich out of it and it was absolutely wonderful MMmmmMmmmm :P
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Offline bbracken677

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Re: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 11:36:52 AM »
I think I will age half out further.....the reason I was surprised about the lack of saltiness was the amount of salt used in Jeff's recipe seemed excessive at the time and I expected a salty tasting cheese.

Offline linuxboy

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Re: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 11:52:57 AM »
.2 delta to rennet is a little high for this cheese. rest looks OK. You missed the final because of the extended ripening, threw off the ph curve w timing of cut and drain
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Offline H-K-J

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Re: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 12:00:47 PM »
I think I will age half out further.....the reason I was surprised about the lack of saltiness was the amount of salt used in Jeff's recipe seemed excessive at the time and I expected a salty tasting cheese.
I do agree with that, my wife thought I was nuts using the salt I had, after tasting and grilling with it she also believes I should have used as much as the recipe called for (even a little more :o)
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Offline AndreasMergner

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Re: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2012, 02:16:51 PM »
LB: You are a CHEESE GOD.  ;)  Is there a better source of info on how I should be using pH meter with cheeses?  I have this great tool, but I don't know how to use it to my best advantage.  I only have Debby's Floc/pH/pressing pdf to go by and I searched for recipes on the forum with pH. 

HKJ, BB: I think I'm following you two with the Stilton and the Caerphilly.  What other cheeses should I be doing??  :)  Mind you my wife thinks I'm crazy to have 16 lbs of cheese aging....

My Caerphilly seemed a bit salty, but I like salty.  I have some Gouda I made (that is really nothing like Gouda) and it is under salted.  It doesn't taste good on its own because of it.

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2012, 02:31:42 PM »
Wait til you hit 34 pounds, and counting, and see what she thinks of you. LOL

Offline AndreasMergner

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Re: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2012, 02:49:28 PM »
We just don't eat cheese that quickly.  A pound of cheese probably lasts a month for us!  I think with cheese in reserve I'll be cooking with more cheese, and it will be nice to age some of these out longer anyway so I'm not exactly worried.  Still, this is just one of the crazy hobbies I have so she has pretty good reason to think I'm nuts.

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: First Caerphilly, final pH too low?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2012, 02:59:02 PM »
Don't worry, if your friends are anything like mine you'll get plenty of requests for cheese.  For some reason they think because you made it it should be free. LOL