Author Topic: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss  (Read 877 times)

Offline steffb503

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How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« on: January 26, 2013, 05:26:31 AM »
Is there a simple way to achieve nice round large eyes?


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Offline linuxboy

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Re: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2013, 03:19:18 PM »
Prepress before main press to decrease nucleation sites, use correct form factor (min 4", max 7-8" tall), use correct culture with lots of gas formation, keep salt .8-1.0%, and manage the temp for steady, even eyes. Also salt at 5.4. And use lb delbrueckii. Pretty straightforward.
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Offline steffb503

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Re: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2013, 03:56:54 AM »
I am good up to the warm room. If I keep it above 65 it sweats out fat. But I read here to keep it 72. Is my rind not dry enough?

Offline linuxboy

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Re: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2013, 09:38:34 AM »
What's your milk like in terms of components? Fat loss is not uncommon in the warm room.
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Offline steffb503

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Re: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2013, 05:15:43 AM »
Well it's goat milk. It was tested to be 3.6% butterfat if that's what you mean.


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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2013, 12:22:33 AM »
It is normal and fine for an Emmentaler to sweat fat, and the AOC documents for Swiss Emmentaler describe fat sweating cheeses as one of the primary classifications of this cheese.

All you ned to do is be sure and wipe the fat off.

True Swiss Emmentaler is often made with part skim milk, that makes a lower fat content so that it is less likely to sweat.

Also keep in mind that a goat milk cheese will not age the same as cow's milk.
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Offline linuxboy

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Re: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2013, 07:24:21 AM »
Pretty much what Alp said. Emmentaler types do not use whole fat milk, which reduces the fat loss in the warm room. But doesn't eliminate
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Offline tnbquilt

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Re: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2013, 03:31:10 PM »
I make Swiss cheese from raw milk that is 5% fat. I understand that this is not true to style, but it comes out really good. It does sweat while it is sitting out waiting for the holes to form, and I wipe it off everyday, sometimes twice a day.

I made Swiss cheese once from the store bought pasteurized milk that was 3.5% fat and that cheese came out tasting like an asiago or something of those lines, not a Swiss. I figure that I screwed this one up in some way, but it was still good, just not Swiss.

The raw milk cheeses that I have made come out with a very Swiss flavor.

I guess I could try a 2% milk but the only way that I know to control the fat is to buy pasteurized homogenized milk at the store, and I'd rather buy the raw milk and pasteurize it myself.

Swiss has been one of my favorite cheese to make. I'd like to make a bigger one than a 4lb, maybe an 8lb, but I'd have to use two pots of curd and I've never done that.
Tammy

Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2013, 03:49:58 PM »
Controlling the fat is easy. Set the milk out in a pan in the refrigerator over night. In the morning, before you make cheese, skim the fat off of the top. You can whip it or make butter.
This is basically what Swiss cheesemakers do, they will put the evening milk in shallow pans in a cool (c 50 degree F) room overnight and skim the fat off in the morning.

The reason for this is twofold. It gives a supply of cream to make butter, and also excess fat in a hard cooked cheese can have a tendency to turn rancid if the cheese ever becomes too warm or if it is aged for an extended period of time. The fats are not broken down in the same manner as proteins.

Many cheesemakers toady make full fat cheeses because they can (better climate control then in the past)
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Offline steffb503

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Re: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2013, 04:53:12 AM »
OK so I was trying to avoid the loss of fat by lowering the temp in the warm room. Could that have anything to do with the small eye formation?


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Offline linuxboy

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Re: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2013, 08:20:31 AM »
Lots. co2 rate of production is limited by salt, temp, ph, and available food.
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Offline Tomer1

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Re: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2013, 02:55:56 PM »
Quote
they will put the evening milk in shallow pans in a cool

What are the benifits of putting it in a shallow pan vs in a cylindical bucket?   
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Offline Schnecken Slayer

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Re: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2013, 03:25:53 PM »
Quote
they will put the evening milk in shallow pans in a cool

What are the benifits of putting it in a shallow pan vs in a cylindical bucket?

I would guess it allows it to cool down quicker as it has a larger surface area.
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Offline green zebra

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Re: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2013, 05:03:58 PM »
Forgive my ignorance but how does one calculate the percentage of salt to the bulk of milk/curd?

Also, i am looking for reasonalble prices for Kadova molds. i want to make some alpine chesses Ie: swiss, emmental etc. I don't think i am ready to make these challenging varieties yet but that i like to do my research ahead.

Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: How to get larger eyes in a Swiss
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2013, 09:07:52 PM »
What are the benifits of putting it in a shallow pan vs in a cylindical bucket?

One immediate benefit is that it is easy to skim the cream off. There may be others as well, I am not sure.

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