Author Topic: No more flora in my cave  (Read 518 times)

Offline AnnDee

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Indonesia
  • Posts: 550
  • Cheeses: 90
  • Default personal text
No more flora in my cave
« on: December 09, 2016, 07:26:57 PM »
Hi all,
My cave has gone too sterile.
I deep clean my cave every now and then with soap water then with bleach spray. This regiment including cleaning the wooden shelf too. Normally after a while the floras come back and I will still have wonderful flora on my cheeses' rind.
Not this time. It has been 1.5 months and my cheeses looks so clean, no more beautiful rind. What should I do? Any hack to introduce natural edible flora in it? I have cranked up my humidifier, sometimes RH goes as high as 95%, still nothing.

I put 3 batches of camemberts on the bottom shelves with the lid opened, they are now in the cold fridge but still nothing happen to my other cheeses rind! Are my cheeses dead? What happen to them?
Ann

Offline Al Lewis

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Port Orchard Washington
  • Posts: 3,048
  • Cheeses: 158
    • Lou's Food & Drink
Re: No more flora in my cave
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2016, 09:24:11 PM »
Wish I could do that! LOL  I'm sure your wood has gotten chlorine soaked into it which is killing the flora faster than it can take hold.  It should subside after a while and they'll be back strong as ever.  Or you could just make one blue and be cursed with it forever! LOL
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 11:18:48 PM by Al Lewis »
Making the World a Safer Place, One Cheese at a Time!  http://alewis64.blogspot.com/

Offline AnnDee

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Indonesia
  • Posts: 550
  • Cheeses: 90
  • Default personal text
Re: No more flora in my cave
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2016, 09:45:32 PM »
I sprayed my cave with vinegar too at the end this time because I had washed rind cheese with blinens prior to cleaning, I don't know if that made any difference. Normally after 1-2 weeks everything goes like it was before cleaning.
I have been washing few of my cheese with salted whey now, as an attempt to develop some kind of life to my cheese rind, it shows good progress with my caerphillies this morning, yay!

So, I took out most of my cheese from 1 cave and I am washing them all with salted whey now.
Hopefully this should fix my boring looking cheese.
Here's the picture that my 13 year old daughter took just now.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 10:14:51 PM by AnnDee »
Ann

Offline Danbo

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Denmark, Europe, Earth, Universe
  • Posts: 1,277
  • Cheeses: 115
Re: No more flora in my cave
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2016, 10:41:23 PM »
Wow!!! Wow!!! Wow!!!

They look so beautiful. A cheese for that...

I would really like to be able to make rinds like that but I don't have the skill. My experience with natural rinds is very limited..

I have mostly been waxing or vacuum packing my cheeses. I do have two goudas that I'm trying to age without wax or plastic. I think that it's hard to keep them reasonably clean and I'm thinking about waxing them.

I have made lots and lots of cheesed but until now I have concentrated 99% on the cheese processes at the vat and totally neglected the ageing part.

Can you give some hints to books, descriptions or perhaps even guide me a bit on the way?

I would love to be able to make rinds like you!!!

:-) Danbo

Offline AnnDee

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Indonesia
  • Posts: 550
  • Cheeses: 90
  • Default personal text
Re: No more flora in my cave
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2016, 11:12:59 PM »
Thank you Danbo, I'm so flattered :)

I now prefer natural rind because I make bigger wheels (30 liters batch), if I remember correctly you also make bigger wheels (24 liters batch). To me natural rind cheese looks beautiful and I love the taste too. I normally like my cheese with a little more colours but these ones only have dry white flora in it and some without any (spotless) which probably perfect for you as you have a little bacteria dislike (if I remember correctly).

I dry my cheese in the cave after brining or salting with RH 65-85 depending on the cheese, for 2-3 days. I use humidifier and small wireless fan.
I read David Asher's book and he mentioned on washing all cheese with salted whey a few times to develop rind and flavours. Check his book, it is good. I combine the method of Caldwell cheesemaking and David Asher's rind maintenance and so far I am please with the result.
Regardless of whether I vacuum pack or wax in the end, I let my cheese go bare for 1-2 months.
Ann

Offline Al Lewis

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Port Orchard Washington
  • Posts: 3,048
  • Cheeses: 158
    • Lou's Food & Drink
Re: No more flora in my cave
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2016, 11:20:48 PM »
A cheese for your beautiful cheeses!  looks like you've been making good use of that Manchego mold. ;D
Making the World a Safer Place, One Cheese at a Time!  http://alewis64.blogspot.com/

Offline AnnDee

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Indonesia
  • Posts: 550
  • Cheeses: 90
  • Default personal text
Re: No more flora in my cave
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2016, 11:27:45 PM »
Thank you Al!
Yep, I use it whenever I want an interesting looking cheese haha! That and canestrato basket molds are my favourite. My family and friends ask me to make cheese for them now, so the manchego molds have been very useful.
Ann

Offline Danbo

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Denmark, Europe, Earth, Universe
  • Posts: 1,277
  • Cheeses: 115
Re: No more flora in my cave
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2016, 12:26:33 AM »
Thanks Ann...

David Asher's The Art of Natural Cheesemaking has just been ordered...

:-) Danbo

Offline Gregore

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Santa Barbara
  • Posts: 780
  • Cheeses: 29
  • Default personal text
Re: No more flora in my cave
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2016, 01:06:05 AM »
Ann

I wonder if  why the molds have not come back  very quickly might be time of year , I assume it is summer there so maybe it is weather related  moisture  or heat or the combo is keeping them at bay in the wild so they are also not populating your cave.

Just thinking out loud .

Offline AnnDee

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Indonesia
  • Posts: 550
  • Cheeses: 90
  • Default personal text
Re: No more flora in my cave
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2016, 04:07:28 AM »
 
Wish I could do that! LOL  I'm sure your wood has gotten chlorine soaked into it which is killing the flora faster than it can take hold.  It should subside after a while and they'll be back strong as ever.  Or you could just make one blue and be cursed with it forever! LOL
I am tempted on sticking a blue in there but I think that is rather severe lol



Ann

I wonder if  why the molds have not come back  very quickly might be time of year , I assume it is summer there so maybe it is weather related  moisture  or heat or the combo is keeping them at bay in the wild so they are also not populating your cave.

Just thinking out loud .

It is rainy season with still blazing hot days sometimes here now but I realise it may be seasonal factor too, I remember my cave was particularly thriving when my garden was flowering season (is there such a thing?  ;D)

I have 1 particular cave that is designated for developing colourful rinds and now that cave has gone pretty sterile. Now I am thinking of making a Tomme with mycodore, maybe it will give another mix to the cave, what do you think?
Ann

Offline Al Lewis

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Port Orchard Washington
  • Posts: 3,048
  • Cheeses: 158
    • Lou's Food & Drink
Re: No more flora in my cave
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2016, 09:19:32 AM »
Just got it on the Kindle.  Thanks Ann. I found it interesting that the first review was written by the lady I buy cheese supplies from in Seattle at the Cheese Connection, Kallijah Paraska. Liking this guy already, no Ph meters! 
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 10:12:34 AM by Al Lewis »
Making the World a Safer Place, One Cheese at a Time!  http://alewis64.blogspot.com/

Offline AnnDee

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Indonesia
  • Posts: 550
  • Cheeses: 90
  • Default personal text
Re: No more flora in my cave
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2016, 09:31:03 AM »
No problem Al. :)
Ann

Offline Gregore

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Santa Barbara
  • Posts: 780
  • Cheeses: 29
  • Default personal text
Re: No more flora in my cave
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2016, 10:05:18 AM »
I think his book was what opened my eyes to how truly simple making cheese can be.  I feel it is probably one of the best books for a beginner , other than having to mail away for kefir grains and learn to keep them alive .

I would go ahead and and try the mycodor while you are waiting for all the natural stuff to return.

And by the way what a wonderful collection of cheeses , that I some how missed last night ..... a cheese for you ann.

Offline Al Lewis

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Port Orchard Washington
  • Posts: 3,048
  • Cheeses: 158
    • Lou's Food & Drink
Re: No more flora in my cave
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2016, 10:22:24 AM »
Quote
Now I am thinking of making a Tomme with mycodore, maybe it will give another mix to the cave, what do you think?

Been dying to do this myself.  Just got my Mycodore. :D
Making the World a Safer Place, One Cheese at a Time!  http://alewis64.blogspot.com/

Offline awakephd

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 1,801
  • Cheeses: 174
  • compounding the benefits of a free press
Re: No more flora in my cave
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2016, 10:25:52 AM »
That picture of your cheeses definitely deserves another C4U!
-- Andy