Author Topic: Can you comment on my rind development?  (Read 946 times)

Offline Tiarella

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Can you comment on my rind development?
« on: February 04, 2013, 08:27:02 AM »
Hi All,  got all the cheeses out to air and would love some feedback on the rinds.  In particular the Mycodore Tomme rinds I'm doing are all new to me and I haven't yet seen any photos of what they might look like so I'm flying blind.  (yes, I did a search on the forum but after a half hour I gave up)

First Cheese  is  my Tomme #3 which is not Mycodore.  It had a lovely and extremely stinky B. linens thing going on.  It's got various other molds that have been rubbed in and now are no longer in the competition.  It's box has been a bit damp a few times lately as I've been not as diligent but still, this cheese feels good and I'm hoping it'll be tasty.  I may have washed the B. linens off under running water once.  The smell does not inspire the wish for a clothespin on the nose with the same desperate urgency as it did.

Second cheese is Tomme #4 make 1/5/13  This is my first mycodore experiment.  I was excited at the smells as the rind developed.  first the smell of those button mushrooms, then asparagus and now mostly earth.  It is a thick rind that is plush like an expensive wool felt.  It does not seem like PC....more of a mycelium feel which makes sense.  Few specks of wild blue on the top in the crevices but hard for anything else to happen on this.  Should I do anything to this rind?  Is it too thick?  Should I brush it down? 

Third cheese is my Tomme #5 made 1/21/13  At only 2 weeks old it already has an impressive start to that same type of rind that the mycodore seems to be producing here.  Has some wild blue mold or yeast on it but I have brushed that down and it is waving a white flag and surrendering to the white mycodore happening.

Fourth cheese is washed curd #3 which is my experiment that I am excitedly looking forward to the opening of.  I washed the curd in a beet juice colored wash with ale and the curds all got a pink coating making for a marbled effect in the paste.  I am curious how that has held up during aging but won't know until opened.  I did a alpine washed rind treatment on this for quite a while and it got quite stinky and lovely colors of peach and rose and cream.  I have stopped rubbing it down and the schmear has dried to a tacky feel.  This seems to be doing well.  May have washed this one under running water at some point also.  It was a stinker but always interesting smelling. 

Fifth cheese is washed curd #4 and it has a spongy feel to it.  Not worried about my finger going through it as I handle it but it's a different feel than I'm used to.  Hope it's okay.  I did not use mycodore on this and yet it is exhibiting the same characteristics that the mycodore treated Tommes are showing.  Not sure why since they are in separate boxes in a cool room of the basement. 

Any ideas, comments or suggestions VERY welcome on any or all of these.  I'm just bumbling along in the dark here, hoping some of these come out well. 


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Offline AndreasMergner

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Re: Can you comment on my rind development?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2013, 09:43:22 AM »
I would be very happy with any of those! 

Offline Tiarella

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Re: Can you comment on my rind development?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2013, 10:20:54 AM »
I would be very happy with any of those!

Well, you're close enough to come on over for a tasting party sometime.  Seriously, there's another cheesemaker or two close by and we could all bring cheeses sometime and taste and comment.  Message me if you'd be interested.  Not sure when of course.  If we timed it right you could take home some fresh goat milk for a goat make if you wanted.   :D

Offline mgasparotto

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Re: Can you comment on my rind development?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2013, 11:32:10 AM »
Tiarella,
Your cheeses are reliably gorgeous and tasty looking. I aspire to cheeses with rinds like yours!
Melissa

Offline Tiarella

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Re: Can you comment on my rind development?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2013, 11:41:01 AM »
Thank you, Melissa.   :D  They are not reliably tasty however although most of them are. And it's a good thing you can't smell some of the photos!!!   :P    I do think it'd be fun to get together with different cheeses to taste.  Are you ever up in western Mass area?  I'm 40 minutes west of Northampton, or about an hour east of the NY/MA border about midpoint. 


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Offline Tiarella

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Re: Can you comment on my rind development?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2013, 10:13:05 PM »
Melissa, just opened up a leaf adorned Caerphilly on therennet Coagulated Hard Other board.  Check it out if you like interesting rinds.  it's a thread I started called Caerphilly #7 Adorned. 

Offline Boofer

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Re: Can you comment on my rind development?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2013, 08:04:24 AM »
Second cheese is Tomme #4 make 1/5/13  This is my first mycodore experiment.  I was excited at the smells as the rind developed.  first the smell of those button mushrooms, then asparagus and now mostly earth.  It is a thick rind that is plush like an expensive wool felt.  It does not seem like PC....more of a mycelium feel which makes sense.  Few specks of wild blue on the top in the crevices but hard for anything else to happen on this.  Should I do anything to this rind?  Is it too thick?  Should I brush it down? 
Wow! So many cheeses gorgeous cheeses!

Kathrin, they all look fantastic at this point. It looks like your usual due diligence has been paying off. I think I would try to reduce the mycodore aspect in Tomme #4 though. Seems a little thick & bushy. I found I wasn't a particular fanboy of mycodore when I used it. A little earthiness goes a long way. That's just me.

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Offline Tiarella

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Re: Can you comment on my rind development?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2013, 08:16:55 AM »
Thank you, Boofmeister!  Ummm, how would you suggest I do a Mycodore reduction campaign?  It seems so solid and like it's a whole 'nother animal.  What did you notice about the taste it created and how deep in the cheese did it go?  Can you tell me more about what you didn't like about using it? 

I was kind of thinking that the Mycodore would create phases of mold developments but it hasn't changed from this so far.  Do you think brushing with one of those plastic surgeon brushes would work?  A light scrubbing perhaps?  Or would you use water?  or vinegar/water/salt?   ???

And what do you think of that last washed curd that seems to be developing the Mycodore look?  Did you find Mycodore to be a manifest destiny type of fungal organism?  (conquering all in it's path....are my cats at risk?  Us while we sleep?  The neighborhood?)

Sorry to ask you so many questions but you've got experience that might mean you have a clue, unlike me.   ???  That washed curd with a softer spongy feel to it......do you think that might be alright?  Maybe I left too much moisture in the curd?  Or it didn't drain well in the dry winter air and stopped draining prematurely?  Ever has that happen?

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Offline Boofer

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Re: Can you comment on my rind development?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2013, 05:52:43 PM »
Thank you, Boofmeister!  Ummm, how would you suggest I do a Mycodore reduction campaign?  It seems so solid and like it's a whole 'nother animal.  What did you notice about the taste it created and how deep in the cheese did it go?  Can you tell me more about what you didn't like about using it? 

I was kind of thinking that the Mycodore would create phases of mold developments but it hasn't changed from this so far.  Do you think brushing with one of those plastic surgeon brushes would work?  A light scrubbing perhaps?  Or would you use water?  or vinegar/water/salt?   ???

And what do you think of that last washed curd that seems to be developing the Mycodore look?  Did you find Mycodore to be a manifest destiny type of fungal organism?  (conquering all in it's path....are my cats at risk?  Us while we sleep?  The neighborhood?)

Sorry to ask you so many questions but you've got experience that might mean you have a clue, unlike me.   ???  That washed curd with a softer spongy feel to it......do you think that might be alright?  Maybe I left too much moisture in the curd?  Or it didn't drain well in the dry winter air and stopped draining prematurely?  Ever has that happen?

<deep respectful return curtsey to your bow>  Thank you!
Oh boy, what to do?

Let's start at the bottom first. Soft & spongey rings a bell (woof!)...here. Unfortunately, that one still perplexes me. In the end, I think the flavor was getting there, but as I recall, the inner core was a little chalky. To be sure, I haven't looked in the fridge for it since it went in there. What I've seen before is this: a washed-rind cheese may develop more at the rind and not reach the innermost paste. There has to be a situation where you can have a washed-rind with a thicker cheese (in contrast to a Cam or Reb of 1.5in/4cm) and still develop the inner core satisfactorily and not have it turn out chalky. I have successfully made such cheeses but cannot readily identify the difference in process between success and failure.

Here's a cheese with the mycodore treatment. Check the tasting comments. As far as acceptance of the taste that mycodore elicits, you'll have to decide for yourself.

I would say brush it down every so often to keep it under control. I wouldn't wash it. I've really only washed cheeses with extreme linens growth because I have found that my wife and I do not prefer the linens taste. The taste of the rind improves markedly with a reduction in the linens population. Inedible ==> edible.

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Offline Tiarella

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Re: Can you comment on my rind development?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2013, 06:46:07 PM »
Hmmm, Boofer.  I had looked at your Tomme #4 thread including the tasting before.  it doesn't look much like the Mycodore I'm seeing.  I think I see B. linens in it's coloring.  I don't know if I have any of that going on.  I'd need x-ray vision.   ::).  I think I'll try brushing that one with a surgeon brush.  I'll post a photo after.


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Offline Tiarella

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Re: Can you comment on my rind development?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2013, 10:09:17 PM »
I brushed the major Mycodore felty cheese but didn't take a photo because it didn't change much.  That stuff is THICK!!!  It took the edge off it but that's all. 

Offline Vina

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Re: Can you comment on my rind development?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2013, 04:10:13 AM »
your rinds look beautiful, kind of I start notice your 'style' - your cheeses are always a piece of art.

Offline Tiarella

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Re: Can you comment on my rind development?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2013, 06:21:04 AM »
Thank you, Vina!  What a nice thing to say.   :).  I am wondering about the thick white of the Mycodore induced rind.  I thought that adding Mycodore to the milk would give me a similar outcome to aging in a cellar with lots of good natural rind creating fungi and bacteria but so far I just get this one thing.  I did brush the oldest white one down and maybe now something else will happen?  I really don't know.   ???

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Re: Can you comment on my rind development?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2013, 10:29:34 AM »
I cant say much for the moldy rinds. I don't know anything about managing molds. But I can speak for washed rinds, where the object is to prevent molds.

Notice the color patterns developed on Tomme #3. Where the molds established, the linens did not produce color (or, as may be the case, the molds bleached them out). Whenever you have a mold infection so rampant as to cause this it will lend off flavors to the rind and into the cheese a ways (this is all highly variable and I can't tell you how far it will go in this specific cheese).

You will also notice that where the linens did not establish themselves so well, the texture of the rind differs. This once again is a sign that flavor will be affected.

Now as to whether or not this is bad is entirely a matter of personal opinion. If you like 'earthy' or 'musty' tones, then you are fine. If you are want a 'pure' washed rind/smear rind flavor than this cheese is majorly flawed. on one side but decent on the other.

You just have some insight here as to the art of washing rinds. It is not easy, and success is never a guarantee. The biggest thing you can do if you want this not to happen is to have a sanitary environment. We age our cheeses in an old cellar, but the walls and floor are limewashed to kill of fungus and such, at least to a manageable degree.

Now for washed  curd #3, the rind looks great. This is a cheese that I would not mind putting in the display case. All but for one thing, what is the poofiness at the bottom? Is this post-make swelling?

For personal cheesemaking, you have a lot of liberties. You can set it out and try and get wild molds to grow all over things. The only problem is it is hard to get consistent results that way (which is not at all needed for the one off home cheese). You take a lot of liberties as well, intentionally I believe, and that is good. Doing experiments like yours is the way one learns about rinds and how they work, so keep it up! 
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Offline Clean break

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Re: Can you comment on my rind development?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2013, 12:18:52 PM »
Tiarella,
I have a Tomme that I want to do a b. linen rind on, your tomme #3 is exactly what I am shooting for.  Can you tell me a little bit about the brine and the process you used?
Scott