Author Topic: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?  (Read 3259 times)

Offline Shalloy

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Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« on: February 08, 2013, 11:08:27 PM »
Im about to start a camembert using 6 litres skim milk and 400mls of cream as per my recipe. However the instructions say this..

Preparing the Milk. Warm the milk and cream combination to 32°C (if using homogenised milk and no cream, add the Calcium Chloride solution at this time). Add the prepared starter and mix well. Leave covered for 75 minutes to ripen.

So does this mean if I am suing cream I DONT have to use Calcium Chloride?  I tried searching for this but didnt find anything on it. Im about to make a start and have already warmed my milk so am desperate for an answer. I dont want to add the calcium chloride if its going to wreck my cheese.

Thanks


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Offline Shalloy

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Re: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2013, 12:00:34 AM »
Well I needed to get a move on so I added the calcium..But I stuffed up. I poured some calcium into a small tube so I could draw off 2mls with a syringe and put this into a small cup full of 70mls cooled boiled water. Except I then went and tipped the rest of the calcium chloride from the tube into this cup as well thinking it was water.

result was I just poured around 10-15mls of calcium chloride into 6 litres of milk with 400 mls of cream.  Whats this going to do to my cheese? Have I wrecked it?

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 12:38:06 AM »
Proceed as normal. Make sure you acidify the curd all the way to 4.6-4.8 before brining, or it will be a bit firm and likely not run enough.
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Offline Shalloy

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Re: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 12:49:49 AM »
I dont have a ph meter so dont know how to acidify the curd? Also my recipe doesnt say to brine.  Im doing a camembert.

Appreciate the help.


Offline Shalloy

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Re: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 12:52:03 AM »
I also just realised that I stuffed up and only added the flora danica and forgot to add the candidum which I was going to get by mashing up some camembert cheese in a paste with some water. Its been sitting for about 40 mins can I add it now?

My first cheese went well, this is a disaster.


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Offline Shalloy

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Re: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 12:56:06 AM »
Its been sitting for 60 mins actually. Can I add the camembert cheese paste now and let it sit for another 60 mins?

Offline Shalloy

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Re: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2013, 01:28:12 AM »
Well my 75 minutes wait time was up and I didn't quite know what to do. So I made up a paste with some camembert and water and poured this in through a sieve and am now letting this sit for 60 mins before adding the rennet.  Hopefully this is okay. I assume this time isnt as important as the time waiting for the curds to set?

When I opened the lid to add the camembert paste the milk had turned a yellow green colour.

Note to self:- Next time make cheese when you guys arent all asleep on the other side of the planet.

Offline Shalloy

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Re: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2013, 05:05:45 AM »
Well I totally stuffed this cheese. I turned the heat on my urn for a minute to raise the temp a degree (I'm using it as a double boiler setup). And instead of turning it off turned it up full.
The whey ended up looking like cream of chicken soup.
And the curds were like rubber. From 6 litres of milk I ended up with only 2 hoops filled but im not holding my breath that this cheese will be salvageable.

My first cheese was a great success with no problems at all.
I just wasn't meant to make cheese today I guess.

Offline mtncheesemaker(Pam)

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Re: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 09:19:23 AM »
Sounds like everything went wrong that could have! Some days it just doesn't work out.

Offline bbracken677

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Re: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2013, 09:44:48 AM »
For future reference, yes to adding calcium chloride...I typically add about 3/8 tsp per 2 gallon make, but that can be upped to 1/2 tsp I have seen in many recipes.

Also...for the pc innoculation as per your method, you could just add that on the exterior of the cheese after the cheese is out of the form. I have never tried it that way, although early on I had plans to do it that way. I did make a blue using a piece of blue cheese from a purchased slice. Got a nice blue as a result, so I see no reason why you couldnt do the same with the PC.


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Offline linuxboy

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Re: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 11:50:28 AM »
Quote
I dont have a ph meter so dont know how to acidify the curd?
Keep the curds warm when draining by making sure ambient temp is 75-80F.
Quote
Also my recipe doesnt say to brine.
Then salt. Whatever salting step you have, the cam needs to acidify before that.
Quote
poured this in through a sieve and am now letting this sit for 60 mins before adding the rennet.
You don't need to wait at all when adding the mold. There's no reason to.
Quote
And the curds were like rubber.
It was overacidified when you set it with rennet.

it should be alright, texture may be off, though.
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Offline margaretsmall

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Re: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2013, 04:40:08 PM »
Dear shalloy,
I can only commiserate. Just one darn thing after another.I'm on the same side of the planet, but I didn't look at your sad story until now, too late to help. Not sure that I could have anyway.  It sounds as though the green colour of the milk which you saw when you added in the mashed up camembert was whey separating from the curds. I wouldn't throw it out, I think you will still get the cam. fuzz and it could well be OK, despite the over abundance of CaCl. Let us know how it is in a couple of weeks time.
Margaret

Offline Shalloy

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Re: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2013, 06:49:07 PM »
Unlike my blue recipe this recipe didnt say to drain the curds in cheese cloth. It just said to scoop out 60-70% of the whey then with a slotted spoon scoop the curds into the moulds. Then turn every hour for 5 hours.

I only turned a couple of times as I had to go to bed it was getting late.

This morning I removed the cheese from the molds and have them draining more covered with paper towel. They look quite wet still. So should I wait for half a day before I salt them? Ive also noticed they didnt shrink much in height like my blue did. I also had to salt my curds in the blue recipe and mix with my hands but this recipe just says to sprinkle salt on the top and let sit for 20 mins then turn over and sprinkle the other side and the sides. Then drain on a bamboo mat for 24 hours at room temperature.
Is this just because blue is a saltier cheese than camembert??

@ Linuxboy..So did my curds over acidify because I let the milk sit at 32C for 75 mins with just flora danica and cacl added, then added the camembert paste and let it sit for another 35 mins before adding the rennet?

How do these look in the photos? Should I salt now or let it dry out a bit more?

Thanks everyone for the replies and advice.


Offline Shalloy

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Re: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2013, 02:02:33 PM »
Bump..Anyone???? What will the excessive heat do to this cheese? It got up to around 45C which I then dropped the pot into the sink with some cool water to get it to drop back down again.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 02:31:03 PM by Shalloy »

Offline bbracken677

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Re: Do I need calcium chloride if using skim and cream?
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2013, 02:36:15 PM »
Camemberts, in my experience, will shrink to 1/3-1/4 their original height in the mold in roughly a day or so....

You might as well salt them now, but I dont think you are going to get the results you are expecting due to the higher form factor....A Cam should be 1"-1.25" tall roughly...perhaps a bit taller may work but the taller ones (1.5 inch) I have made experienced less ripening than desired in the center.  Camemberts ripen from the surface inwards.

I dont think your cheeses would be badly over acidified given that the PC should raise the pH up to around 6 by the end of your aging period. Biggest problem I see is, again, the height of the cheeses....they will ripen around the edges about a half inch or so inward, but not the larger central portion.