Author Topic: Mutschli  (Read 2227 times)

Offline bbracken677

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Re: Mutschli
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2013, 09:11:58 AM »

With repetition we all improve our techniques and develop a feel for what the milk is doing and where it is at a particular stage of the cheesemaking process. The comfort and confidence level improves over time as well, giving us the insight needed to make on-the-fly adjustments to our process if different situations intervene.

-Boofer-

Absolutely....I have made a number of cheddars, and I am beginning to see where I can make improvements in my methodology. When I first began I was all questions, inexperience and clueless. Now I have graduated to semi-clueless but the eyes are opening.    :)

I believe my biggest problem with my cheddar makes has been the overnight pressing resulting in a too low pH by the time I take it out of the mold. Since I start my makes in the morning, I can actually remove from the mold later that same evening to begin the drying phase and I believe I will see some improvements. Also...based on taste tests, I believe I can increase the amount of salt used somewhat to further slow acidification. 

Until I got my latest pH meter I was unable to test the pH of the cheese out of the mold.

 I also believe that I have not allowed quite enough time for drying before bagging. Hence I have added a secondary drying phase inside the cave (somewhat higher RH inside the cave than the ambient RH here in Dallas).

The lessons above were learned the hard way, aided by the use of the pH meter.  There is no perfect substitute for experience, but the proper application of knowledge combined with a bit of science and experience will go a long way.

And when you add the combined experience of people in this forum to help you along the path...excellent cheese is just a ways down the road!!  (havent quite got there yet, but it is the journey that makes the destination worthwhile).


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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: Mutschli
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2013, 12:10:59 PM »
YEs repetition is a great teacher.

And experience cannot be replaced. Even when using modern methods, you still need that expert human touch.

I understand that the traditional methods also are not for everyone, for making hard cheeses like ours, it requires dedication and passion to be able to spend the time and effort necessary to master the craft.

I had the benefit of being able to make maybe 14 or so Alpkäse in  a 2-week time under the tutelage of one of the finest cheesemakers in the region, the experience gained there spending time where cheese was quite literally our life was invaluable.

My opinion is that a scientific approach is a substitute (not a replacement) for having it passed down to you. I was blessed to have had it passed down to me as a part of a millenia-old tradition. But not everyone can have that. So my contribution is to try and get our operation set up so that I can do the same for cheesemakers here in North America.
Guät git's dr schwiizer Chäser

Offline BobE102330

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Re: Mutschli
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2013, 09:48:49 PM »
Today's make went much better.  I was able to knead the curd mass to expel enough whey that it fit the mold and 3.5 gallons of P/H milk made a cheese that is now under 150 pounds and 2.5" high in a 7.5" mold.  The first two pressings were under whey at 70 pounds. 

Lousy picture in the press.  Going naked, so you can see nubbins in the making.

Offline JeffHamm

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Re: Mutschli
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2013, 12:06:53 AM »
Just to reinterate what Alpkaserei says, I think the scientific approach will really get you through that first learning phase much faster.  You should produce far fewer abject failures.  However, you still need to pay careful attention to what the curds and the cheese is doing, not just your measurements.  The measured approach should get you to the point where you are observing more or less the correct textures, and firmness, etc, but your experience will help you tweak things, to adjust.  Measurements are about averages, not necessarily specifics.  They minimize the error you will make, your experience will help you correct those errors.

- Jeff
The wise do not always start out on the right path, but they do know when to change course.

Offline BobE102330

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Re: Mutschli
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2013, 01:23:33 AM »
The floc time was 11:30 but at 23 minutes I didn't get a clean break so I let it go 5 more minutes. I followed Alp's directions cutting slowly over 20 minutes with a whisk then some pretty vigorous stirring for half an hour before heating to 107F. Carry over heat took me up to 109 for a bit before draining. I probably should have been more aggressive kneading it. It came out of the press with major nubbins weighing in at 4 pounds 2 oz from 3.5 gallons of milk. It feels pretty good, though.  In the whey brine until later this morning when it may be ready for its close-up.


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Offline BobE102330

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Re: Mutschli
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2013, 09:04:15 PM »
Heading to the cave

Offline bbracken677

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Re: Mutschli
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2013, 07:19:58 AM »
Nicely knit! Knice job! Nice looking kcheese! 


Offline BobE102330

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Re: Mutschli
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2013, 08:43:18 AM »
Thanks, BB.

Offline BobE102330

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Re: Mutschli
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2013, 09:12:03 AM »
At a month the cheese was looking like it was blowing up - the top and bottom were bulging more than my attempt at Jarlsberg.  Expecting the worst, I opened it last night. 

Looks like the bulging was actually shrinkage/water loss at the edges. Nice dry orange rind - washed with white wine brine for a week.  Way too soft to be a Mutschli, guess I needed more kneading time.  About the texture and firmness expected of a Muenster, and slightly sharp linens taste.  I got a little closer than my first attempt, but I will have to try this one and Jarlsberg again.

Cut up to share.

Offline Smurfmacaw

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Re: Mutschli
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2013, 03:46:14 PM »
Since I'm going to make one of these pretty soon I have a question about the initial heating and brewing process.  In Alp's recipe he has the milk heated to 108 degrees then it gets heated again to 97 degrees.  I'm not sure I would loose 11 degrees of temp in an hours (more or less).  In the AlpKase recipe he heats half the milk to 108 degrees but then puts the other half in which I would assume would lower the temp considerably.  Is that step omitted in the Mutschli recipe? 
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 05:05:46 PM by Smurfmacaw »


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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: Mutschli
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2013, 05:26:47 PM »
The recipe you are referencing implies the adding of the milk in 2 different stages. This is because that is the way we do it in the mountains. The fresh morning milk is added directly into the vat, the culture added and cream from the evening milk melted and blended into it. The rest of the evening milk is then added. Since the evening milk is cool, it will lower the temperature quite a bit. We always tried to warm the first round in such a way that when we added the second round of milk, it would be just at the right temperature for adding the Rennet. But the milk is only chilled to maybe 45 to 50 degrees, not cold.

I imitate this practice in the more in depth recipes, because I think it has an affect on the quality of the cheese. I would feel safe to say this overheating, cooling, then reheating has a definite effect on the bacteria cultures within the cheese, and I would also guess that it would have an effect on the enzymes and protein structures in the raw milk.

But if you are doing a hobby cheese make, and aren't so in depth to care about these minute details then its fine if you skip this double initial heating, and just heat up once, and let incubate about 20 minutes. As far as bacteria count goes, this will be about the same. And if you are using pasteurized milk then this technique won't matter anyway. There are no wild bacteriae contend with, and the enzymes and proteins are already thoroughly screwed up.
Guät git's dr schwiizer Chäser

Offline Smurfmacaw

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Re: Mutschli
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2013, 08:30:24 PM »
Thanks, that is what I thought was going on.  Just wanted to understand the process to prevent any disappointments.  I appreciate all the cool information you are posting, it really helps.