Author Topic: Sparkling wine - Tranditional method  (Read 1209 times)

Offline Tomer1

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Sparkling wine - Tranditional method
« on: March 02, 2013, 08:41:44 AM »
So. Since the 2010 vintage Ive started working on the idea of expirimenting with bottle fermented wine.
This started out as some shiraz rose+second wine made with skins I made. It wasnt good enough to bottle so I decided to ferment some strawberries and peachs to give it a fruity boost and by late 2012 I hade a great floral base wine with 9% alcohol (below the 11.5% limit) and very high acidity (pH of 3.1 \ total acidity 8 g\L).

I decided to recycle some cava bottles as these cannot be purchased in small quantities here, only by the thousands per order.
Also I got the metal cages and plastic sparkling corks with bidule (yeast catching part) off ebay which took a while.
It was clear enough so I made a yeast starter with EC1118 which is a strain suitable for secondary fermentation, build it up to 5% of the total volume, mixed and started bottling.

The bottles are now undergoing secondary fermentation at 10.5 celcius and will sit on the dead yeast lees for a year. by 2014 we will have something to celebrate with  ^-^

This is the result

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Offline shotski

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Re: Sparkling wine - Tranditional method
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2013, 11:12:57 AM »
Very interesting combination indeed Tomer1. I am trying to think what it would taste like and my palate is all over the map.

Offline Tomer1

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Re: Sparkling wine - Tranditional method
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2013, 04:37:15 PM »
It wont taste like a rose champagne for sure (I tasted a few and I can say they arent very fruit forward. a good description would be nuetral but with a red tint.  they are likely just blended with some pinot noir red wine during final blend assembly but are mostly made from white juice (chardonay, pinot munier, pinot noir)
Older vintages can smell kind of funky and yeasty\bready sometimes which is an aquire taste) ,

I am hoping however,  for a long crisp finish like in a good premium bubbly and a clean punch of fruit (floral, strawberry, peachs) but not like the one you get in the cheap artificially flavored italian force carbonated wines. thos are aweful IMO.
Ive added enough yeast nuetrient hoping to not get any sulfer odors. thos can make it smell like a toilet, completly destorying it.
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Offline shotski

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Re: Sparkling wine - Tranditional method
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2013, 09:05:30 PM »
Personally I am not a big fan of bubbly wine but can appreciate high quality in almost anything. Sorry that is the 2012 vintage Cab Sav 80% Alacant 20% speaking.:D)

Offline zvisaar

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Re: Sparkling wine - Tranditional method
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2013, 02:55:51 AM »
I am waiting to the ceremony of the opening the bootels waiting for the invitation


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Offline Hansadutta

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Re: Sparkling wine - Tranditional method
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2013, 03:41:54 AM »
Hello Tomer1,

Out of curiosity; How much sugar was in the wine when you bottled it? I tried it a few times and nowadays I add 25 gram/liter before bottling but that feels like a lot.

Regards,
Hans

Offline Tomer1

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Re: Sparkling wine - Tranditional method
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2013, 02:30:51 PM »
Hello Hans!   What kind of verietals do you have in holand?

4 g\L of sucrose = 1 atm\bar , 25 g\L is at the upper limit. (about 6 atm as in Champagne)
As I was re-using used bottles (some were thin and some were very heavy thick glass, Martini's asti were the heaviest) I decided to go with 5 bar at 20 g\L dextrose (fairly equivlant to sucrose but dissolves much more easly)

It you prefer a ligher fizz (charment style) perhaps go with 3-4 atm.

Just opened a bottle, its no good.  Too much phenolics and some bitterness on the backround - sugar doesnt help.  Good aroma though. strawberries, some red fruit.
I think I'l dump most of the wine but a few bottles just to practice disgorging.

Im gone reattemp in the summer with some aromatic grapes , a blend of muscat and gevurtz maybe.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 02:53:58 PM by Tomer1 »
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Offline Hansadutta

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Re: Sparkling wine - Tranditional method
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2013, 02:42:18 AM »
Hi Tomer1,

Too bad they are not to your liking. Don't you think they will improve in time? I guess I agree that sparkling wine does not agree with phenol.

Thanks for the confirmation about the amount of sugar. I wanted to make a champagne like wine some time ago. I found some information on the internet but it was totally incorrect. I reached 25 g/L just by increasing the amount each time I tried to make it. (I was a bit surprised because in beer making the amount is so much less.)

Unfortunately I don't have any wine grapes available in holland. There are some farmers that have stopped farming and are starting a vineyard but I don't think they are making money from wine.
I make white wines with juices from the supermarket. To my own surprise you can actually make pretty good wines with them.
Red wines are a different story. I make red wines from elderberries which I think is really nice. I am trying to make a wine with dried elderberries at the moment but I have my doubts about it. We will see in 2 years time.....
I am also trying to make red wines from the wine kits but so far I am really disappointed in them. Even the expensive kits produce cheap tasting wines. I am experimenting with the juice to make it work and I have found some improvements but it still is not what I would like it to be.

This year I bought 2 pinotin plants from a specialized shop. These plants should survive in our climate and give good grapes for wine. But that is for the future.

Hans

Offline Tomer1

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Re: Sparkling wine - Tranditional method
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2013, 10:00:35 AM »
I guess I agree that sparkling wine does not agree with phenol.
Hans
I accually fined with gelatin to reduce phenolic content and the base wine tasted alright but.... maybe the fizz increases the feel of bitterness.
I'l keep some around at my warmer wine storage space.  I suppose it will mellow out with age but its not worth spending cheese cave space... 

Quote
I was a bit surprised because in beer making the amount is so much less
Beer carbonation is very weak compered...

If you can pick enough elderberries, you can press them for juice and make a lovely sparkling rose maybe.
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Offline Tomer1

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Re: Sparkling wine - Tranditional method
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2013, 04:07:46 AM »
I opened one and its accually getting better. Far less astringent and getting a bit bready and smooth from the lees.

One thing I dont understand is why they gush like crazy when I open them. I chill to 4c and they still do it.  Feels like formula 1 podium and the counter is covered with wine.
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Offline Hansadutta

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Re: Sparkling wine - Tranditional method
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2013, 06:11:32 AM »
Hi Tomer,

My "champagnes" tend to do the same although some bottles more than others. Strangely enough the pressure in the bottles doesn't seem to be too high because removing the corks can be a big effort.
I try to be as gentle as possible when I open the bottles and that seems to work at the moment. But maybe the next batch will hit the ceiling. I guess I am saying that I have no clue. Did you measure the density before bottling? I am curious because I have not been able to find some "official" values.
Glad to hear they are improving. Maybe you can try to open and close a botlle and drink it the next day to give the ageing process a jump in time and release some of the gas.
Regards
Hans