Author Topic: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization  (Read 1169 times)

Offline Cruci

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Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« on: March 10, 2013, 02:58:26 PM »
Hello !!

I am getting about 10 gallons of raw cows milk tomorrow from a new source I found.
It is a mainstream milk production farm. The kind where the cows are not really grazing.
I disagree with these methods of raising cows, but it is my only source of raw milk currently.

Should I pasteurize my milk? There tends to be some grass in the containers and such.



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Offline shotski

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Re: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2013, 03:29:55 PM »
Hi I am not an expert on raw milk but by the sounds of it I would filter it first then pasteurize it.

Offline margaretsmall

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Re: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2013, 03:48:08 PM »
The issue, I believe, is not really what the cows are eating, but the cleanliness of the process and the health of the cows. Cows grazing pasture exclusively can still contract disease and be milked in an unsafe manner.  If you are planning to make a soft cheese I would definitely pasteurise. If its a cheese you plan to age and the milking conditions appear to be sanitary you may not need to. What does the dairy do with its milk? If it is selling it they do need to meet certain conditions. That said, of you have concerns,  by all means pasteurise.
Margaret

Offline bbracken677

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Re: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2013, 05:48:39 PM »
How is grass getting into the containers??

Offline Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2013, 09:22:39 PM »
If there is actually grass in the containers, I would find a new source, and quick.
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Offline Susan

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Re: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2013, 06:16:57 AM »
I get raw milk from a farmer who is not overly concerned about cleanliness.  In his defense, he just throws the milk out unless I go to get it.  That said, he is willing to indulge me and my OCD with cleanliness when I go to get the milk.  His cows are healthy.  So, true, I am pretty careful.  But, other than a few specks in the filter, there are never 'floaties' in the milk.  How would it get in there.. unless he is hand milking into an open bucket?  Just a speck of debris can contain millions of bacteria.  I agree.  Would find a new source.  Once in a while I have a breach.  ie, the local dog dropped his toy (that he wanted me to throw) right in my milk jug.  I tossed that milk.

Or maybe there is the possibility the guy would work with you.  You could see where the problem is and make suggestions to correct the problem.  Of course, this only works if you have a good relationship with the farmer.  Good luck!
Susan

Offline margaretsmall

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Re: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2013, 05:05:49 PM »
Missed the last sentence about the grass in the container - yuck!
Margaret

Offline Alison

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Re: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2013, 08:49:39 AM »
Hi Cruci

Was the grass fresh or processed .... ;) (dung)? What did cheese makers do 500 years ago, hand milking, no running water, and still dung? These days I'm sure there are bacterial issues with bunching so many cows in the same place (ie the whole industrial scale agriculture thing). I just wonder how many whole flies (or bits of poop) landed in the bucket in the "good ole days" and why cheesemakers were not regularly burnt at the stake. Is there something forgiving about introducing a quorum of happy bacteria to milk that makes the nasties curl up into a corner?

I heard a story (from a Swiss dairy farmer) that in the 70's the holes in Emmentaler went away with the introduction of good hygiene......

I know listeria is a terrible and dangerous infection, but how do we avoid overreacting to any "contaminant"? Here's a (deliberately provocative) suggestion (to stir the curd): If you are local, you probably have been exposed to the bugs any way, as even pasteurisation does not kill ALL the bugs and only just weakens some. If you merely making for you own consumption - (as long as you are not immune-compromised) and the contaminant was fresh grass I'd be cautiously experimental.

Regards
Alison

Offline Cruci

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Re: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2013, 04:55:12 PM »
Hi Cruci

Was the grass fresh or processed .... ;) (dung)? What did cheese makers do 500 years ago, hand milking, no running water, and still dung? These days I'm sure there are bacterial issues with bunching so many cows in the same place (ie the whole industrial scale agriculture thing). I just wonder how many whole flies (or bits of poop) landed in the bucket in the "good ole days" and why cheesemakers were not regularly burnt at the stake. Is there something forgiving about introducing a quorum of happy bacteria to milk that makes the nasties curl up into a corner?

I heard a story (from a Swiss dairy farmer) that in the 70's the holes in Emmentaler went away with the introduction of good hygiene......

I know listeria is a terrible and dangerous infection, but how do we avoid overreacting to any "contaminant"? Here's a (deliberately provocative) suggestion (to stir the curd): If you are local, you probably have been exposed to the bugs any way, as even pasteurisation does not kill ALL the bugs and only just weakens some. If you merely making for you own consumption - (as long as you are not immune-compromised) and the contaminant was fresh grass I'd be cautiously experimental.

Regards
Alison

I do not know of how the cows were maintained, but the farm is one of the many producers of milk that go to the main milk companies here.
The step before the factory process.
Do you lose a lot from the pasteurization of raw milk?

As a matter of a fact I am immuno-compromised. I need to pay close attention to such bacteria. Thanks!

Lots of good info on this page awesome

Offline Alison

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Re: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2013, 02:54:30 AM »

Do you lose a lot from the pasteurization of raw milk?


As long as you pasteurisation is "low and slow" say 1hr at 62degC (there can be issues with shattered curd with the in line pasteurisers that reach 85degC for 5 sec) there is little functional loss.
I make both pasteurised and unpasteurised versions of the same cheese. The flavour differences are like the differences between a single malt and a blended whiskey. The pasteurised version has strong flavours in 1 or 2 dimensions, the raw milk cheese is rounded, and softer flavoured. I imagine it's because in the raw milk a number of different bacteria are producing different byproducts.

There is, of course, no accounting for taste :o!

Regards
Alison

 


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Offline george (MaryJ)

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Re: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2013, 03:51:44 AM »
There are two kinds of raw milk: milk intended for pasteurization, and milk intended to be consumed raw.  If the milk you're getting is intended for pasteurization, I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole - hygiene tends to fall by the wayside when intended for pasteurization (i.e. grass in the milk).
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Offline Schnecken Slayer

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Re: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2013, 04:04:10 AM »
Alison raises a good point about being subject to local cultures. It is quite possible for local communities to become acclimated to local strains, except some nasties like Listeria.
For most of us in the western world, who have been bought up on pasteurised milk, any contact with these could be quite distressing.

After the recent deaths and mishaps here in Australia, from commercial producers supplying Listeria in their cheese, I will stick with pasteurised and put up with an inferior product.
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Offline Alison

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Re: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2013, 08:52:21 AM »
After the recent deaths and mishaps here in Australia, from commercial producers supplying Listeria in their cheese, I will stick with pasteurised and put up with an inferior product.

The scary part is that they claim to pasteurise their milk for the cheese.... (http://www.jindi.com.au/cheesemaking.html). Where the did the Listeria come from?

I'm not sure a single malt is inferior, just different.

Offline Tomer1

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Re: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2013, 09:44:12 AM »
There are bacterial products (cultures) which can help promote saftety in raw milk cheeses.   You should consider their use.
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Offline bbracken677

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Re: Raw Cow's Milk and Pasteurization
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2013, 11:04:09 AM »
After the recent deaths and mishaps here in Australia, from commercial producers supplying Listeria in their cheese, I will stick with pasteurised and put up with an inferior product.

The scary part is that they claim to pasteurise their milk for the cheese.... (http://www.jindi.com.au/cheesemaking.html). Where the did the Listeria come from?



Listeria does not have to come from the milk. The milk could have been pristine and the listeria came about during the processing, at some point, of the cheese itself.

It is a common misperception that by definition listeria in cheeses came from the milk, which is not necessarily so.

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