Author Topic: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?  (Read 6217 times)

Offline Boofer

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2013, 08:58:09 AM »
I guess between the two of us (and Fied) we'll figure it out. ;)

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Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2013, 04:13:39 PM »
Reckon so! ;D

Offline Boofer

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2013, 07:38:58 PM »
I have been letting the rind dry out a bit and have hesitated to wash it for fear of it getting too soft. The threat of slipskin was on the outskirts of town and I wanted to guard against that.

Geo is still the prominent rind guard and development personality. Not much linens action and the Geo is low-key. Interesting development so far. No foreign incursions. ;)

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Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2013, 07:33:09 PM »
Took mine out of the cave also.  It was stinky and damp. :-\

Offline Boofer

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2013, 02:00:34 PM »
Just a datapoint to keep the record current. Getting a little more shrinkage. Moisture on the minicave walls, which I wipe down. I think this make is a little on the thick side for this style. I'm looking for a nice gooey paste akin to Taleggio but I think we're quite a ways from that at this point.

That's two tentative changes I would make to the recipe:
  • thinner form factor
  • leave out the cream or significantly less cream
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Offline Tiarella

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2013, 06:55:30 PM »
Just a datapoint to keep the record current. Getting a little more shrinkage. Moisture on the minicave walls, which I wipe down. I think this make is a little on the thick side for this style. I'm looking for a nice gooey paste akin to Taleggio but I think we're quite a ways from that at this point.

That's two tentative changes I would make to the recipe:
  • thinner form factor
  • leave out the cream or significantly less cream
-Boofer-


How does yours smell?  I find this style tricky although I really loved the peachy colored washed rind wannabes I made last summer.   ;)

Offline Boofer

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2013, 06:34:22 PM »
How does yours smell?  I find this style tricky although I really loved the peachy colored washed rind wannabes I made last summer.   ;)
I'll have to consult my onsite olfactory inspector. My bloodhound years are behind me. My dear wife is the second opinion I cherish.

I had them out for a walk in the past hour. They were mildly aromatic. I just grabbed her and marched her out to the cave network. Her conclusion after several whiffs with delays between...very mild, nothing unpleasant or untoward. She asked "is that okay?" I told her it was.

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Offline Tiarella

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2013, 08:01:01 PM »
How does yours smell?  I find this style tricky although I really loved the peachy colored washed rind wannabes I made last summer.   ;)
I'll have to consult my onsite olfactory inspector. My bloodhound years are behind me. My dear wife is the second opinion I cherish.

I had them out for a walk in the past hour. They were mildly aromatic. I just grabbed her and marched her out to the cave network. Her conclusion after several whiffs with delays between...very mild, nothing unpleasant or untoward. She asked "is that okay?" I told her it was.

-Boofer-

Well aren't you the official type cheesy guy!   >:D. Onsite Ofactory Inspector for your Cheese Cave Network!?
Would her title be the OOI?   Kind of sounds like what I say after tasting something bad.   :D   So, that'd be the OOI of the CCN?  I like it!

I need to do cheese patrol tonight.  I'm sure someone needs attention.   I need to make cheese too...milk is piling up.

Offline Boofer

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2013, 08:52:56 AM »
Reckon so! ;D
Hey, Al, any progress to report on your rendition of this cheese?

Mine is coming up on the fifth week this Wednesday. As of this morning, the two squares are holding their own and the Geo is the dominant rind protector and paste developer. Don't see much of the linens even though the cheeses get flipped and an airing every other day. The surfaces are slick (Geo) and you can see shrinkage overall with a slight subsequent wrinkling of the rind.

I think without the added cream and with a lower-height form factor, the two cheeses would be nearing completion with the paste nice and creamy. As it is, I suspect the paste is still chalky towards the center. :P

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Offline iratherfly

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2013, 02:57:44 PM »
marched her out to the cave network
Boofer, a cave NETWORK? Impressive achievement for any cheesemaker and their only common grounds with those hiding from the long arms of America!

Love Pont L'Évêque!
Bascally, take a Camembert, stick it in a square hoop instead of a round one, and instead of bloomy treatment, wash it.  The only other fabrication difference is that Pont L'Évêque curd gets cut before it is ladled to the hoops so it's slightly less moist.

As far as size goes, there are two sizes. Full size is about the dimensions of a full Telaggio. This get quartered in the shop and then each quarter is cut across to form two triangular cheese wedges. These sold individually just as Brie gets cut in the shop to be cut individually.  And then, there is the more common Petit Pont L'Évêque which is sold in the small square wooden boxes. Sometimes a shop may take them out of the boxes and cut them to 2 triangular wedges as well.  The Petit size is 1/4 of the full size.  In fact, you can use the Tallegio mould with the splitter to make 4 proper size Petit versions. Your size looks totally good to me. Really nice work with the aging too!  A cheese for you buddy!

If you want to get that very unique authentic color and aroma... there is an easy perfect way: Use Danisco Choozit ARN. It is EXACTLY the correct blend and it was isolated from that cheese. It is to Pont L'Évêque what PLA is to Reblochon - only it is even more authentic.

I recently used it to make a washed rind experiment. I used totally different starter and I used kid rennet so it never meant to be anything like Pont L'Évêque but the ARN rind treatment made it sooooo l'Évêque-ish!!!  Note the color, the paste underneath, the thickness and the development of the rind which is not as smooth as Reblochon but not brainy, sort of in-between (for which you are correct to choose Geo 13 by the way). The rind doesn't just look like Pont l'Évêque, it smells like it too!


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Offline Boofer

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2013, 10:57:46 PM »
Thanks, Yoav.

Fantastic looking cheese. Yum!

The rind here is slick. Most unusual for other Geo rinds I have made which were drier and somewhat gritty. I am trying to air it out a bit more and dry the rind a bit. Any other suggestions? I even made up a mister this evening to give the two squares a booster dose of SR3 in hopes of getting a little more color.

I think you have finally made me a believer in ARN. You've beat the drum enough for me to add that to my list to you. When making a cheese this past week, I upped the dosage to 1/2 tsp because I thought the cultures were getting a little long in the tooth (2010). I will be looking to replace those with some fresher ones.

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Offline iratherfly

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2013, 11:51:18 PM »
Thanks Boof!

The cultures from 2010 are probably just fine as long as you kept them frozen, airtight and dry so they never clumped (happens when you move them from a cold dry freezer to a noramal room temp/humidity. They collect moisture beads just like a bottle of cold beer out in a hot summer day. It pre-activates them and they die due to lack of nutrients - no milk...).  Expiration dates on these packets are a bit of nonsense but that's a subject for a whole other thread...
In any event, you don't need to double or quadruple the amount just because they are old, but you can certainly at a tad. Too much of any culture would consume the substrates too quickly and your cheese will go out of balance.

The rind you are describing sounds like Mocasse to me. That's the early stage of geo growth (the late stage of geo is powdery dry white, such as the dusted covering you see growing over the orange rind of a Reblochon).  Reduce temperature and reduce humidity immediately. Toss a bit of salt on your next wash. All this stuff will slow the geo by a lot, but probably not slow the B.Linen as much, so it will give it a chance to catch up.  I would also consider changing the washing method are you using brush? sponge? your hand? It's not a sure fix but it may be just the edge you need to get back control over your army of rebel microbes.

The other thing to remember (which I reiterate but I know you know this already) is that the B.Linen coloring intensifies long after you have stopped your wash routine. All you want to see is that it is getting yellower or orange-ier so you know it is planted and alive. 2-4 weeks after you have done washing the color will finally look like what you originally wanted. Not like a Camembert where the white is white and that's it.   The cheese in the photo is aged 60 days.  I only think that it reached Pont l'Évêque coloring at about the 5th or 6th week (of course, mind you I was not going for Pont l'Évêque). This cheese has been out of the cave and in refrigeration since week 3.  The texture and flavor were still not complete by end of 6/beginning of 7.  The B. Linen will arrive. Just give it time.

Another thing to consider on your next wash is using yeast and micrococci. They will prepare the surface faster stronger b.linens, as well as protect against contaminating bacteria. They also contribute to the aroma, flavor and texture. In this case KL71 and MVA will work great together.

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2013, 12:02:56 AM »
Quote
get back control over your army of rebel microbes.
I have this vision of millions of microflora standing up... "I'm Spartacus!"
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline Boofer

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2013, 12:41:49 AM »
Quote
get back control over your army of rebel microbes.
I have this vision of millions of microflora standing up... "I'm Spartacus!"
"No, I'm Spartacus!"

Classic. ;)

They collect moisture beads
I take the bag out of the freezer, take what I need quickly, and re-vacuum seal the bag to suck out the moisture. They have been staying fairly dry and unclumped that way. Still, every time I open the vacuum seal and expose them to moister air over the years, there has to be some degradation in viability.

The rind you are describing sounds like Mocasse to me.

The other thing to remember (which I reiterate but I know you know this already) is that the B.Linen coloring intensifies long after you have stopped your wash routine. All you want to see is that it is getting yellower or orange-ier so you know it is planted and alive. 2-4 weeks after you have done washing the color will finally look like what you originally wanted.
I stopped washing almost two weeks ago because the rind appeared to be softening too much and I was trying to dry it out a bit. I would agree that the slickeriness is mocasse. I've seen that before. I just expected it to fade by now, the Geo to dry a bit and head towards grittiness, and for the linens to come on a bit more.

I'll resume washing tomorrow morning with my SR3 & 3% brine. That should help correct some things.

Then I'm wondering about the target ripening date range.... Everything points to 4-6 weeks ripening. Wednesday marks five weeks. :P  I'm not in a rush...this needs to be ripe before I cut into it.

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Offline KTownCheese

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Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2013, 12:16:36 PM »
Awesome pics!  Beauty form and impressions on your rind!