Author Topic: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!  (Read 1812 times)

Offline Tiarella

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Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« on: May 29, 2013, 09:09:57 PM »
Well, I finally got my courage up to make a blue cheese.  Not sure what I wanted to make but thinking maybe a tomme style with blue, maybe a natural rind, maybe some buttery flavors......didn't find a recipe I wanted to use....don't really know blue cheeses at all.  Yup, a fiasco potential for sure!   ::)  I used Pav's basic tomme recipe, or rather a make sheet I created based on that.  I even read parts of it during the make!   :o  I also answered a million questions from my visiting daughter  (not about cheese), made graham crackers and did something else too so I was a bit scattered. 

Make notes:
2 1/2 gallons raw goat milk, 1/2 gallon fresh from morning milking, 1/2 gallon 5 days old and everything in between.  I've done this a few times with fine success.
Heated milk to 88 F
added cultures:
3/8 tsp Flora Danica  (not a culture I use often and I wish I'd used my Kazu instead)
1/16 LM57
1/32 PR 3
1/32 Mycodore

Forgotten the ripen milk part and added rennet (2 ml single strength calf rennet) 15 minutes after cultures.  Did I mention I was distracted?   :-[


Flocculation at 11 minutes, cut curd with whisk at 38.5 minutes  (3.5 multiplier) let rest for 10 minutes
raised temp to 100 degrees but it took longer than the 30 minutes I aimed for although not by much.

Put in mold lined with whey dampened cheese cloth.  Put in press at no pressure and then very little pressure.  Flipped and rewrapped 3 times.  More knit than I expected as I had imaged a kind of craggy wheel with lots of mechanical openings.  Not so with this version!   :-[ 

Did not brine.  Maybe I should have.  Put about 4 tablespoons of salt on it while it drained on matting overnight.  The curd is soft as you can see.  I guess we could call it a sumptuous or generously proportioned wheel.  it's continued to slump a bit and no amount of lecturing on the importance of good posture has made a difference. 

So far it's still at room temp.  It was made Tuesday.  Gad, was that only yesterday?  It's in a box now with the lid ajar to allow some air circulation for drying but not so much as to dry the rind too fast.

I'd love suggestions on what to do next.  I don't think it fits into any category of blue that I've seen yet as it's not soft and not hard but somewhere in between.  There was no extra cream added but the milk is very rich.  the wheel is firm but pliant and rubbery.  It's not fragile.  I wonder whether a knitting needle will go through it easily or whether I'll need to find an extra long drill bit and bring my cordless down from the barn.   

So, how long at room temperature?  What signs will tell me that it's a good time to piece it?  What temp should it age at ideally?  Heeeeelllllllpppppppp!   :-\

I want a natural rind I think........and this is firm enough that I think brushing it will help it grow something nice.  I put a bit of mycodore in the make because I wanted to have that as part of the rind make up. 

Okay.....I'm yawning and you are probably tired of reading blue details too so I'll sign off and go wash some dishes.


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Offline Boofer

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Re: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2013, 08:42:33 AM »
Well, I finally got my courage up to make a blue cheese.  Not sure what I wanted to make
Kudos for stepping into the unknown.... ??? :o ::)

raised temp to 100 degrees but it took longer than the 30 minutes I aimed for although not by much.
Did you cook it at 100 degrees or merely shoot for that target and then wrap it up? Most recipes will call for holding/cooking at the elevated temp while stirring to shrink the curds and expel whey.

It's in a box now with the lid ajar
Reminds me of a joke about a bed...I made it up. ::)

I don't think it fits into any category of blue that I've seen yet as it's not soft and not hard but somewhere in between.
So it is perhaps a semi-soft or semi-hard cheese?

Did not brine.  Maybe I should have.  Put about 4 tablespoons of salt on it while it drained on matting overnight.
So...this is a lactic Tomme then?  :P

Didn't salt the curds and didn't brine. That might be a problem. The rind will tighten up with the added salt and exclude additional salt uptake, leaving the inner paste low-salt.

If it were me, I'd want to do one or the other. Two days post-make, I would probably try to brine it. The rind should still be permeable and should still allow the salt uptake.

The curd is soft as you can see.  I guess we could call it a sumptuous or generously proportioned wheel.  it's continued to slump a bit and no amount of lecturing on the importance of good posture has made a difference. 
Looks like a cheese with dunlops. Another clue that perhaps extra whey was retained and the curds were not cooked or stirred long enough.

I'd love suggestions on what to do next.
I want a natural rind I think.
Take a peek at my Fourme d'Ambert. I was shooting for a natural rind (no mycodore though) and it was brined. Don't be in a hurry to pierce. Early piercing could lead to unwanted infection from opportunistic "floaters". There should be some blue showing on the rind before you pierce.

Distracted, huh?
 
As always, Kathrin, your postings are very lyrical and imaginative. Thanks for my morning smile. :)

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

Offline Tiarella

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Re: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2013, 09:36:16 AM »
Boofer!  So nice of you to show up.  So many questions and thoughts to reply to!  What fun.   :D

First, wouldn't a lactic tomme be made without rennet?  I used rennet so I'm not sure it complies with the description of a lactic tomme.   I did keep it at 100 for a while...just forgot to include that in the notes.  The curd was not too fragile and my last cheese with poor posture came out great....that'd be the cocoa coated tomme I opened recently.  It IS obvious though that the curds did retain more whey than desired.  (way more whey) (not really "way more" but it's fun to say "way more whey")

So on the hardness question I'd guess this fits the tumescent category.   >:D.  Your Dunlops reference is a tire reference, right?  maybe this should be a Michelon (sp?) man cheese.

And I'm not sure If I deserve kudos for stepping into the unknown territory or an anonymous gift of "Cheesemaking for Dummies" from someone concerned about my obviously low IQ.    :-[

Yeah, definitely distracted.  And that's going to get worse because I have two goats due to kid in the next week and one in particular looks like a Goodyear blimp with tiny toothpick legs.  I'm thinking she has at least 4 babies in there.  Last year she had 2 but her dam always has 4. 

But I digress. back to cheese.  I will attempt a brine bath for it.  (refusing scented  bath salts no matter how much it begs)

I will check out your Fourme d'Ambert thread and hope to glean some blue intelligence.  By the way, wouldn't an ad by the Blue Men Group for blue cheese be great?  Yup, scattered brain today.   ???

Off to work....glad the commute is only about 20 steps.

But how long should I brine this puppy?  it's 3 lbs, 6.1 oz.  just popped it into the brine and it floats a lot higher that most cheese seemingly a clue that it is less dense than most cheeses and probably a LOT less dense than I.  I did salt the top and can flop it often in the brine.


Offline bbracken677

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Re: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2013, 10:40:03 AM »
or perhaps, dunlop = dun lopped over (as in tummy...belt..)   :)

Offline CheeWilly

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Re: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2013, 11:19:02 AM »
Tiarella,
The next blue that I will attempt will be a natural rind like the first, but I am planning on washing it for the ten day regiment creating a slurry to give it a little firmer rind.  I believe this will also hold the little blue jumpers from joining the other cheeses that in the cave.  I have kept my blue in the same cave as soem other goudas that I started, but the blue is in a sealed container with a little distilled water inside to keep the moisture up.  I have not noticed any cross contamination at this point, but I wanted to tell you about the slurry paste natural rind idea.  Good luck, and I like the way the cheese looks, very unique!
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Offline Tiarella

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Re: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2013, 11:23:49 AM »
Tiarella,
The next blue that I will attempt will be a natural rind like the first, but I am planning on washing it for the ten day regiment creating a slurry to give it a little firmer rind.  I believe this will also hold the little blue jumpers from joining the other cheeses that in the cave.  I have kept my blue in the same cave as soem other goudas that I started, but the blue is in a sealed container with a little distilled water inside to keep the moisture up.  I have not noticed any cross contamination at this point, but I wanted to tell you about the slurry paste natural rind idea.  Good luck, and I like the way the cheese looks, very unique!


Hmmm, what will be in the slurry and how will that help prevent blue jumpers?   ???  I'll have to go find your thread and look at your photos.  My cave is too small to have this blue in a box so I think I'll have to do ice packs in a cooler.  This will truly test my ability to remember to take care of my cheese responsibilities!   :P

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Re: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2013, 11:45:22 AM »
This will not be a fiasco, but you are not going to get a traditional blue either. Because you pressed this cheese it will not have any air gaps internally to allow blue mold to grow. Blue mold likes a little salt, so a little sprinkled on top is not enough. So... what to do. Well, I make a Blue Gouda that is not salted and is lightly pressed. The secret is to pierce the cheese BEFORE brining. The salt in the brine will help keep the holes open. Even so, you will not get traditional veining, and the interior will be a very mild blue flavor. It is very important to let the blue on the outside develop as much as possible to give the cheese some added flavor. If you want blue flavor, you do not want to do a "natural rind" that encourages anything other than the PR.
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Offline Tiarella

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Re: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2013, 11:58:40 AM »
This will not be a fiasco, but you are not going to get a traditional blue either. Because you pressed this cheese it will not have any air gaps internally to allow blue mold to grow. Blue mold likes a little salt, so a little sprinkled on top is not enough. So... what to do. Well, I make a Blue Gouda that is not salted and is lightly pressed. The secret is to pierce the cheese BEFORE brining. The salt in the brine will help keep the holes open. Even so, you will not get traditional veining, and the interior will be a very mild blue flavor. It is very important to let the blue on the outside develop as much as possible to give the cheese some added flavor. If you want blue flavor, you do not want to do a "natural rind" that encourages anything other than the PR.

Thank you Sailor for weighing in!  Much appreciated.  So maybe I'll pierce it now, halfway through the brining.  Do you think any holes will develop from gas development?  I've not eaten much blue cheese in my life so I'm not feeling the need for strong blue taste but I will see what I can do to encourage blue on the outside.  What about temp of aging? 

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Re: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2013, 12:52:09 PM »
If you go straight into your "cave" at around 50F, the temperature will be too low to encourage really good initial blue growth. I have a large milk cooler that I keep at 60F just for my blues, but you can also keep them at room temp for a few days until the blue kicks in. After they get a good growth of blue, they go into my regular cave and age 60 days or more at 50F.
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Offline Tiarella

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Re: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2013, 12:56:35 PM »
If you go straight into your "cave" at around 50F, the temperature will be too low to encourage really good initial blue growth. I have a large milk cooler that I keep at 60F just for my blues, but you can also keep them at room temp for a few days until the blue kicks in. After they get a good growth of blue, they go into my regular cave and age 60 days or more at 50F.

Thank you! That helps a lot.  I did pierce it and put it back in the brine.  I'll put it in a mini-cave box in a basement clean room that is somewhat cool but not cold.  The heat wave hitting us now might not be a good idea for room temp. aging. 

It is rubbery and firm.  After piercing and returning it to the brine it let out bubbles from the piercings.  I gave it a few squeezes in an attempt to make sure brine penetrated well through the piercings. 


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Online Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2013, 01:21:47 PM »
So you burped your blue. ;)
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Offline Tiarella

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Re: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2013, 01:35:27 PM »
So you burped your blue. ;)

and it even spit up a little!   :P

Offline CheeWilly

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Re: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2013, 01:36:01 PM »
My thoughts are after the rind has hardened a bit, it would deter the blues from jumping ship.  Could be totally wrong, but I will be trying this on the next one and let you know.  I may wind up making a mutant blue in the long run!
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Re: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2013, 01:51:02 PM »
Blue mold makes spores, so drying the rind a little will not stop cross contamination.
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Offline meyerandray

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Re: Renegade Blue. Any suggestions welcome!
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2013, 02:19:29 PM »
I made a similar make recently, i just put up a thread about it. I am no expert,but wanted to show some moral support!