Author Topic: Butterkase 1 Fail ?  (Read 1996 times)

Offline JeffHamm

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Re: Butterkase 1 Fail ?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2013, 07:36:54 PM »
Thanks Boofer.  I don't have a pH metre, so I just toss in two cubes and ripen for various amounts of time.  Seems to be working, but at some point I'll want to get a stick. 

And Keyser Soze, ok, it's possible the culture was working, just slowly, and if you froze the milk you would have been fine.  But, I understand your reluctance.  If you try again and have the same problem, then make cubes and test some (i.e. put one cube in some milk, warm it up to 42, and put it in a thermos.  Check it out the next day to see if it's working.  If it is, your cubes are good, if not, perhaps your culture is not working?)

Anyway, you've reminded me I have to make some more of my thermo cubes soon.  Looking forward to hearing how this turns out for you.

- Jeff
The wise do not always start out on the right path, but they do know when to change course.


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Offline Boofer

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Re: Butterkase 1 Fail ?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2013, 09:30:24 PM »
ummmmm--  Sorry, what is .1 delta?
Your starting pH might be 6.75. After you add the cultures and they've had a chance to get with the program, the pH now reads 6.65. The pH has shifted downward by .1 and delta is that change in reading.

-Boofer-
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Offline Keyser Soze

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Re: Butterkase 1 Fail ?
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2013, 08:02:08 PM »
Hi All !!
Gave the Butterkäse a taste, (1.5 months) just because I had to.  Tangy and smooth, not buttery at all.  Very sharp actually. Has a few holes in it, sort of Havarti like in looks.  Revac bagged for the next month to try again.  I just needed a taste note to see what it would taste like unripened, and now another wait.  My wife says it is sour and liked the caerphilly better.  I think the Caerphilly was more like a white cheddar and was not ready after three weeks, so that's off for another week or two also.

This is fun !!!!!

Offline shotski

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Re: Butterkase 1 Fail ?
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2013, 08:41:17 PM »
"This is fun !!!!!"

 Yup , very addictive isn't it............

Offline Keyser Soze

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Re: Butterkase 1 Fail ?
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2013, 11:47:10 PM »
Oh Yeah !!

Took two weeks off the cheese to put up some beer.  Bottled a nice Munich Dunkel this morning and made a cheese at night.  This is a shot at a Baby Swiss.

Tried the Buttrkäse again, seems like two weeks made a big difference.  It is almost there, but I'm waiting till September to try it again.  The Caerphilly needed the extra two weeks also, and that's almost gone already.  My wife and her friends and co-workers found it.  Oh well,
theres always more to make.
One of my mother's friends is looking to have me make some Goat milk cheese.  I get free milk and they get some cheese.  I may try one of those soon.

I do enjoy this !!!

BTW  I was wondering, when a press weight is refered to in a make, is it dead weight or psi,??  I have gotten confused with weight to height, weight of press to weight of cheese ratios etc.

The only one I know for sure is 8lbs weight to 1 lb cheese for Schweitz style makes ( Thanks to Alpenkäse) 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2013, 11:54:04 PM by Keyser Soze »


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Offline JeffHamm

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Re: Butterkase 1 Fail ?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2013, 02:03:29 PM »
A lot can happen in a couple weeks early on.  Caerphilly, though normally eaten young, can be aged out up to a year, and butterkase can age well too, so finding when you like it best is a personal taste thing.  Personally, I like caerphilly quite young as I like the tang it has.  I've messed with my butterkase make so much it's probably not really butterkase anymore, but I like it after 3 or 4 months. 

Anyway, sounds like you've got a couple hits on your hands so well done.  Don't forget photo's of the cut cheese, as everyone likes to see how things have developed. 

- Jeff
The wise do not always start out on the right path, but they do know when to change course.

Offline Keyser Soze

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Re: Butterkase 1 Fail ?
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2013, 12:28:34 PM »
I'm afraid I asked this before, but why would my cheeses taste sourish?  I am careful to dry them on the counter at the right temps and I have them bagged in a fridge at 50 -55 deg F.  I do use p&h milk, cacl, and everything is really clean and sterile, but none of them are creamy, sweet, buttery and all. mostly harder feeling and slightly sour.  Caerphilly, Butterkäse, and a baby swiss all seem to taste the same except for the amount of salt.

Any ideas??
Next make is this sunday I think and I would love to know what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks all !

Offline JeffHamm

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Re: Butterkase 1 Fail ?
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2013, 01:38:13 PM »
Hi Keyser Soze,

There are a number of things that influence the flavour.  The cultures you use is one.  So, if you're generally using the same starter for all your cheeses, the flavours will be more similar than if you use different starters.  Flora Danica, for example, contains strains that help produce a buttery finish, but it's a weak acidifier.  The sourness could be excess whey, which means you may need to stirr a bit more, or cut the curds a bit smaller, or both, etc.  If you're using store bought milk, pasturized and homogenized, you may want to try a different brand as it could be the milk.  It could be the bagging as well, as this prevents the cheese from breathing while it ages.  I often find that bagged or waxed cheeses will take a while to "air out" (as in a few days or even a week or more) before their true flavours come through.  If you can age your cheeses in boxes, rather than bagging them, this may help (they can slowly expel whey and not have it trapped against the cheese, for example).

For the butterkase, did you use yogurt or a culture for the thermo?  Try different yogurts if you're going that way, as each will have their own strain of starters.  (Use a plain yogurt, not something like "strawberry swirl", etc). 

I'm sure there are other things as well that people will suggest.  In the end, though, it's really a matter of practice.  As you make more cheeses your technique improves.  You'll get a better feel for the curds, and what stage they are at, etc. 

- Jeff
The wise do not always start out on the right path, but they do know when to change course.

Offline Keyser Soze

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Re: Butterkase 1 Fail ?
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2013, 01:43:01 PM »
Thanks Jeff !!
 I think you may have hit on it.  I have used cultures prepped into ice cubes, meso and FD and the thermo I used was dry and rehydrated just before use.  Maybe they are not so good?  I'm going to try it again with spoon measurements and from fresh packages and see if it makes a difference.
I also suspect my stirring needs to be addressed a little because maybe I don't stir it enough.  I'm going to try to document the whole process .
I'll let you know,
I decided on a second Butterkäse.  We opened the last of the Caerphilly you suggesed making and it was great (previously my wife liked it an I didn't) and the second wheel of bk.  The caerphilly was more like a butterkäse than the BK was.It was not so good, melts well, so mac and cheese for dinner next weekend I guess.


Thanks again, I'll post pics as soon as I can get them on this compuer.
Eric
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 04:40:40 PM by Keyser Soze »

Offline dthelmers

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Re: Butterkase 1 Fail ?
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2013, 08:55:28 AM »
Sour flavor can come from too much whey being retained; either by too large a curd cut or too little scalding, or scalding too quickly, or not stirring enough, or a combination of all of these.
My first few cheeses were a bit sour and crumbly, from not stirring enough and letting them acidify too long.
Dave in CT


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Offline Keyser Soze

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Re: Butterkase 1 Fail ?
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2013, 09:50:28 AM »
Thanks Dave !!

I think the stirring is the secret.  I have a tendency to get a little sloppy in that area.  Next make is coming up this weekend and I think I'll betring fresh raw milk and everything the same, but stirring more.

Thanks,

Eric