Author Topic: AGING EXPERIMENT  (Read 1886 times)

Offline dthelmers

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Meriden, CT. USA
  • Posts: 486
  • Cheeses: 27
    • Homely Arts
AGING EXPERIMENT
« on: July 11, 2013, 09:54:42 AM »
I know we all take a lot of care when aging our cheeses, keeping temperature and humidity in bounds that should produce a good cheese. I teach cheese making workshops periodically, and teach about how to care for a hard cheese, warning about too rapid proteolysis and lypolisys and the off flavors that can be produced. But after my latest class, I started thinking that I don't really know this from experience; I don't know what those flavors taste like. I took the cheese we made at the workshop, and put it on the rack after brining, as usual, but instead of putting it into the cheese cave, I left it there for eight weeks, room temperature and fairly humid through our spring in CT. It grew a pretty good crop of blue mold, which I didn't touch. The mold died back, a few colored patches appeared, and the cheese just sat. I opened it with a couple of food making friends, cut off the ring, and tasted it. It was an extremely tasty cheese, full of complex character. No bitterness at all. No stinkiness, but a sharpness about like Asiago.
 
This was my modification of the Caerphilly make from 200 Easy Home Made Cheese Recipes by Amrein-Boyse, whith the changes being 4x floc multiplier and a larger curd cut (1"), and shortening the brining time from twenty hours down to twelve.
The milk was p/h store milk, with MM100 starter.
Dave in CT


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline dthelmers

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Meriden, CT. USA
  • Posts: 486
  • Cheeses: 27
    • Homely Arts
Re: AGING EXPERIMENT
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2013, 09:58:20 AM »
I'm going to try this again on Sunday and see if it comes out the same way. I certainly didn't expect it to be any good, let alone this good. If it's repeatable, it will become my stand-by cheese. I called it Esgeulestod, which is Welsh for Neglect.
Dave in CT
Dave in CT

Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: AGING EXPERIMENT
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2013, 10:47:53 AM »
Yep, can work well. The suggested ripening schedule for accelerated temp cheddar, for example is 2-4 weeks at 52-55F, followed by 4-6 weeks at 65-68F, followed by cold storage. Then cut and pack. Early initial cooler period helps to avoid defects in commercial production.

Off flavors can be due to all sorts of things. Most often, it's not temp, unless you're working with bloomies and stinkies with high MFFB.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline dthelmers

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Meriden, CT. USA
  • Posts: 486
  • Cheeses: 27
    • Homely Arts
Re: AGING EXPERIMENT
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2013, 11:08:16 AM »
I somehow had gotten the idea that room temperature would produce bitterness from a too rapid proteolysis. If this comes out well consistently it will be a good student cheese. It also demonstrates that a good curd knit and a nice smooth rind prevent mold penetration.
Would a small amount of S. Thermophilus make this even better? I know you had suggested it for my young cheddars and it helped the flavor.
Dave in CT

Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: AGING EXPERIMENT
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2013, 11:44:51 AM »
Yes, will help increase some flavor potential. In longer aging, it tends to create more rapid browning, though. But if you're going max flavor in least time, your NSLABs are going to do more than strep. lb Paracasei, for example works well here for raw aminopeptidase potential. Add .2% bulk equivalent.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline dthelmers

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Meriden, CT. USA
  • Posts: 486
  • Cheeses: 27
    • Homely Arts
Re: AGING EXPERIMENT
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2013, 01:33:30 PM »
Are there any suppliers who sell that in home cheesemaker amounts? I'd like to try it.
Dave in CT

Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: AGING EXPERIMENT
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2013, 01:42:27 PM »
Yoav has it IIRC or can get some for you. artisangeek.com
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline dthelmers

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Meriden, CT. USA
  • Posts: 486
  • Cheeses: 27
    • Homely Arts
Re: AGING EXPERIMENT
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2013, 02:02:12 PM »
Thanks, I'll try it and post back on this thread comparing the two.
Dave in CT

Offline MrsKK

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Wisconsin
  • Posts: 1,875
  • Cheeses: 61
  • Default personal text
Re: AGING EXPERIMENT
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2013, 09:59:47 AM »
I love the name you picked!  And congratulations on maturing enough to teach cheesemaking workshops - I've learned SO much through teaching the workshops I do, too, plus I meet a lot of really interesting people.

I can't wait to see if you are able to repeat the results.  Do you have a cabinet that you kept the cheese in and what was the median  room temp through that time?  Did you turn the cheese, even though you didn't do anything with the mold?

Offline dthelmers

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Meriden, CT. USA
  • Posts: 486
  • Cheeses: 27
    • Homely Arts
Re: AGING EXPERIMENT
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2013, 10:42:30 AM »
Well, the base recipe is for a Welsh cheese, and neglect was the affinage process, and I love the Google translate function!

I enjoy teaching workshops, but with the cheese workshops I have not been very successful in getting other people to continue on their own, and I think that aging is part of it. People are reluctant to start as they feel they need a special cheese cave for aging; so if this works, this may be a good style of cheese to get them going. I teach making hard cheese, as there are plenty of other classes for soft cheese among my crowd.

The cheese set on a wire shelf in my brew room/cheese room, a 6' by 10' room with the door always closed. I did not turn it or touch it. I wanted to see what the result of utter neglect would be. I've had several people tell me that they made cheese in the past, but it had gotten mold right down into the very center. I have the idea that proper pressing would make this impossible; that a good knit plus a good smooth skin would not allow any mold to enter. I let it mold unmolested until the mold mostly died back, then rubbed it all down with a brush before cutting it open. As you can see, there was no mold inside.

I didn't track the humidity, but I'd say it was on average around 80%, with the temperature pretty steady at around 72°F. The next one I will put in a pie safe on a wooden board and turn and rub it every couple of days. I'm really pleased with the taste, although it no longer tastes like Caerphilly, so I'll continue to make that and age it in the dorm fridge I use as a cheese cave, 50°F at 85% relative humidity. If this next one comes out well, I'll make another with a little lipase; it seems like that might go well with this flavor. I may smoke some of it, too.
Dave in CT


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: AGING EXPERIMENT
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2013, 11:19:10 AM »
Quote
I have the idea that proper pressing would make this impossible; that a good knit plus a good smooth skin would not allow any mold to enter.
if there are inclusions, you can still achieve proper mold protection by starting with a schmier. What happens is that the schmier creates a layer of biofilm that is like a natural cream wax and protects the inner cheese. After a schmier application for 3-4 weeks, the rind surface aW also decreases enough to where it will not easily support mold growth.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline Spellogue

  • Michael
  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Ohio
  • Posts: 303
  • Cheeses: 14
  • Default personal text
Re: AGING EXPERIMENT
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2013, 05:59:02 PM »
Great looking cheese dt.  I'm glad you created this thread.  I'm very interested in low maintenance techniques.

if there are inclusions, you can still achieve proper mold protection by starting with a schmier. What happens is that the schmier creates a layer of biofilm that is like a natural cream wax and protects the inner cheese...

I take it such a schmier does not necessarily need to include b. linens, correct?  I understand that it may show up from ambient presence in many environments, but can a schmier be done 'linens-less'?

What do you mean by 'inclusions'?

On a similar note I started a blue with a flat form factor, decided to age it in a ripening box in the garage fridge, accidentally left it at a rather high room temp for a few days (80F), and it went bonkers with several wild molds.  I was concerned that poil du chat was one of the molds so I washed it once with an 18% brine and returned it to the fridge (it runs warm at about 52-55F), and let it be.  I look at it every now and then.  It's exhibiting a few spots of blue, wormy geo all over the top and bottom, and some white fuzz around the edges.  I patted down the white fuzz about a week ago, but I resigned to letting it do as it will and see where it goes.  Geo 13 was purposely included.  I used the same utensils in a side by side make with a Crottin. The PR didn't show up in the Crottin though. I tend to think the blue that showed up in the garage fridge cheese was wild.  I can't wait to cut into it, but I think it's got another 3-4 weeks to go yet.  I'm encouraged by the notes here.

I'd take a picture, but I'm out of town for a family reunion this weekend.
I can resist anything but temptation.      ~ Oscar Wilde

Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: AGING EXPERIMENT
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2013, 06:20:45 PM »
Quote
I take it such a schmier does not necessarily need to include b. linens, correct?  I understand that it may show up from ambient presence in many environments, but can a schmier be done 'linens-less'?
Much harder. You can do it with a mix of streptococcus and other strains, but b linens is everywhere. To actually create a morge without it would take some sophisticated approaches (read: more work).

Quote
What do you mean by 'inclusions'?
Cracks that go beyond superficial surface imperfections. Due to poor fuse and/or poor cloth technique.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline Spellogue

  • Michael
  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Ohio
  • Posts: 303
  • Cheeses: 14
  • Default personal text
Re: AGING EXPERIMENT
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2013, 11:01:35 PM »
Good.   On a craggy one I'm OK just washing with brine to form the schmier and letting what happens happen.   
I can resist anything but temptation.      ~ Oscar Wilde

Offline Boofer

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Parkland, Washington
  • Posts: 4,222
  • Cheeses: 201
  • Contemplating cheese
Re: AGING EXPERIMENT
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2013, 07:07:27 PM »
I wanted to see what the result of utter neglect would be.
Uh huh.... ::)

You forgot about it altogther.... :)

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.