Help, is this Mozz safe to eat?

[Tiarella]

Making Mozz....going for the soft kind and following a combination of recommendations from the forum and Jim Wallace's recipe.  It was NOT the best day to make cheese but I ran out of bottles to put milk in and needed to do something with the milk in the fridge and rather than pour it onto gardens I decided to go ahead.  I had a garden work barter person coming at 1 pm for 4 hours to work with me and so I knew I'd be neglecting parts of this make. 

The curd got cut on schedule and put to consolidate and rest on schedule but it sat for 4 hours before I could put it in hot water to work it.  When I investigated it I found to my concern that the curd had a spongy bubbly look to it.  I hope this isn't a sign of contamination.  I've eaten some and not fallen over dead yet but maybe it'll take a while longer.  If you never hear from me again you'll at least know why.      Sooooo, I'll attach a photo and go do evening barn chores.  I'll look for insights and suggestions when I get back.  Oh, and by the way, it did stretch fine but it'll be a bit more rubbery than I was looking for.  I can try again in two days. 

[linuxboy]

Oh, and by the way, it did stretch fine but it'll be a bit more rubbery than I was looking for.

Wait even more before renetting, and make your cut schedule be 4" for first cut, and 1.5-2" for second cut. It's a moisture/acidity balance issue. Break down the calcium for more softness, and retain more water. You'll get there.

[Tiarella]

So, what are the bubbles from? 

Now that I have time to type I'll share how the make went.....at least with as much detail as my notes provide
I heated the milk to 88 since I was using a Meso/thermo mix culture and raw goat milk.  (my culture stash is low, I'm out of MA4002 which Jim Wallace's recipe gave as an option so I used Flora Danica.....I don't like this culture much although I'm not sure why.)  I put the culture in 2 cups of warm milk and let that ripen for an hour while I heated the larger pot of milk.  Jim notes that this is a way to save some time and given that time was in short supply I decided to try it.  That milk was added to the full pot of milk and, as per his recommendations, I did not wait the usual ripening time.  The milk with culture was added to the milk at 11 am and rather than rennet immediately I gave it another 30 minutes before renneting.

I cut the curds in one direction at 2" intervals and waited for 10 minutes.  (I should have waited at least 20 minutes I think)  I then cut in the other direction and being flustered because my work for barter person had shown up I didn't let this rest but gave it a gentle stir before I realized my mistake and stopped.  It wasn't much of a stir, mostly a moving of the curds gently by hand and spoon to get them out of formation. 

Then......the curds got to settle at the bottom of the pot until 1:15 or so with about 3 stirs during their time in the whey and then I put them in a colander over a pot of hot water in a sink of hot water and there they sat until 5 pm.   So, 4 hours in the colander.  Will I go to hell for this?   

The cheese stretched well but is a bit squeaky/rubbery to the taste although still yummy on tomatoes.  Those bubbly holes sure made me nervous though.

The  next time I try it I will have a longer day to work on it.  I'll take no short cuts, wait longer before rennetting and make my cuts in a larger dimension as per your suggestion.  Is the longer ripening time what breaks down the calcium? 

[linuxboy]

Will I go to hell for this?   

nah, just purgatory

as for the holes, usually yeast or bacterial coliform. looks like a yeast to me.

Is the longer ripening time what breaks down the calcium? 

Yes. You have to balance the calcium breakdown. In fluid milk, more collisions due to brownian motion, means acid degrades calcium bonds. Then after fusing curds, you want a slower kind of breakdown and need time and acid. Balance the pre-rennet acid with the post-drain/fuse acid, and you'll get a long stretch. Get the moisture right, and you'll get the softness.

edit: lower pH also increases micellar hydration. So you get more water in the protein bundles.

[Tiarella]

Thanks, LB!  (except for the purgatory fears I now live with.    ). Is there a way to ascertain whether it's yeast or bacterial coliform?  By appearance or by the behavior of my gut after eating some.  (although I think that depends upon amount and my gut bioterrain but I don't know that for sure)

Sorry to be a special needs cheese student but your notes still aren't completely clear to me.  You talk about brownian motion and after looking that up my question is, do you mean that milk just sitting is having it's calcium bonds degraded?  or only if the milk is in a certain pH range?

Then, after it's in curd form you're saying it's just going to take time and the continued development of the acid from the action of the culture?  And do mean you get either a long stretch or moisture?  I guess I'm still confused......but getting closer to, dare I say it, a eureka moment.   

When you talk about moisture level in that last bit I think you are saying that the acidity development is part of what increases the moisture potential in the final product although amount of stirring has an impact also. 

Did you see Jim Wallace's tutorial here: http://www.cheesemaking.com/Mozz-Culture.html
he talks about using a lower temp and a meso/thermo mix to produce a softer cheese.  he didn't mention if there should be an adjustment to how much you handle/stretch the cheese.  I assumed stretching should be minimized but am not sure if I'm right about that.

Sorry for all the questions......

[linuxboy]

Is there a way to ascertain whether it's yeast or bacterial coliform?

Lab test.

You talk about brownian motion and after looking that up my question is, do you mean that milk just sitting is having it's calcium bonds degraded?  or only if the milk is in a certain pH range?

A fluid has more brownian motion than a solid (which generally has none). For acid to degrade calcium micelles, it needs to be in contact and collide with the micelles. In fluid milk, there is a high rate of collision, and when the acid builds up, it quickly breaks down each micelle. On the other hand, after you use rennet, it forms a gel of micelles. And acid acting on that gel has very different properties than when acid acts on the liquid. In the end, the gel takes much longer to break down. What you want is some breakdown before creating the gel to help form a strong curd and increase hydration, and then you want the acid to break apart the gel, but not too much, so that it plasticizes and forms the spun paste typical of mozz.

The degradation happens all the time. Question is how rapid and to what extend before you take the next action (eg rennet add action, drain, etc)

And do mean you get either a long stretch or moisture?

no, both. The initial acid development helps form a stronger gel, which helps moisture retention. Then during cutting, it is the curd size, heat, and agitation schedule that determine the moisture content of the curd. And then when you let the curd acidify, it is the rate of acid development and how long it acidifies that determines the stretch.

acidity development is part of what increases the moisture potential

Right.

he didn't mention if there should be an adjustment to how much you handle/stretch the cheese.

The more you handle the curd, the more moisture you lose. In all cases. To retain more moisture, handle it less.

I would focus on one thing at a time. Start with the three biggest parameters. pH at rennet add, curd size and cook, and pH at stretch. Then can tweak from there. Those three things have the biggest impact.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Tia - are you doing a quick or cultured Mozz? Target pH at rennet and the make procedures are very different.

[Tiarella]

Tia - are you doing a quick or cultured Mozz? Target pH at rennet and the make procedures are very different.

Hi Sailor,  It's cultured Mozz and I don't have a pH meter so I'm flying blind (but happily flapping my wings a lot).  I'll have to see if I can master this using common sense and intuition along with the generous amount of support and encouragement from forum members.

LB wrote:

I would focus on one thing at a time. Start with the three biggest parameters. pH at rennet add, curd size and cook, and pH at stretch. Then can tweak from there. Those three things have the biggest impact.

Thanks SO much!  So, given that I don't have a pH meter I'm thinking I'll do my next batch this way......please (anyone) let me know what you might suggest I change.  I'm hoping for ideas on all aspects but I'll put in red the areas I know I have uncertainties about.

I'll start with 2 gallons of raw goat milk:
heat to approx 88 (lower since a Meso/thermo culture mix is suggested for softer version, open to other ideas)

Add 30-40% less than a 1/4 tsp culture      (less because of raw milk)  will likely use MA4002 for this

keep milk warm in sink of hot water and let it acidify for 90 minutes

add 20-30% less than 1/2 tsp rennet

give that 45 minutes  (Is this a good estimate?)

Cut at 4" first (should I do both directions or just 1), wait 20 minutes

Cut between the 4" to make 2" blocks (now that there are 2" sq columns do I try to cut those columns into cubes?  Never got good at that.....at least, not a lot of uniformity)

let sit 20 minutes

give a gentle stir.......(I'm thinking with clean hands rather than metal spoons since the curds will break up more with a spoon but I'd love critique on this thought too)

Move gently with hands or spoon every 10-15 minutes to avoid all curds forming into one lump

after 1 hour transfer curds to a colander to drain whey and consolidate into a mass.  Keep these curds warm in whatever way works for that day's temps.  Keep these curds warm and draining for 2 hours. (or should I go for longer?)
then test for stretchiness by putting a couple of small pieces in some 180 degree water.

Do minimal stretching

cool immediately after stretching.  (is this important or not?)

[Tiarella]

update on the quest for soft Mozzarella for tomato season.  Success!!!  Used the recipe above pretty much as written and the end result is soft, tasty and perfect on tomatoes with basil and a dusting of salt.

Steff, if you read this maybe you'll try again and have good results.  I use raw goat milk and I don't remember if you have access to raw milk or not.  I think you'd be able to do it with pasturized milk too but I haven't tried that.

THANKS to everyone who helped me get to this point.  You all rock!  And you're all invited over for slabs of heirloom tomatoes with Mozz and basil. 

[Boofer]

And you're all invited over for slabs of heirloom tomatoes with Mozz and basil. 

Okay, I've got my bus ticket.

Good to hear you've had some success, Kathrin. When I finally do my first Mozzarella I'll click over to this link.

-Boofer-

[Tiarella]

Boof!  Hey, I'll pick you guys up at the airport!  It's BDL in Hartford CT.   

[scasnerkay]

Did you take pictures of the lovely soft mozz?
I still have not managed to have it be soft!! But I will follow your guidelines next time. You cut a bit larger than I did, and I like your idea of stirring with hands. How long did it take from start to finish?

[Tiarella]

Sacasnerkay,  I don't have photos. Too busy eating it, too much juicy tomato bits all over my hands to even think of photos.   The larger cuts, not cooking it further, maybe using the lower temperature (although that's partly about using raw milk and goat milk I think)  The gentle hand stirring and very little stretching have a part in it too.  Most of the recipe is based on Jim Wallace's tutorial here:  http://www.cheesemaking.com/Mozz-Culture.html    and utilizing the recipe adjustments he recommends for softer results.  When making this past batch, during the point at which I was testing for stretchiness with just a piece of the curd, I noticed that it felt a bit squeaky/rubbery in my mouth when I tasted it and worried it was going to be rubbery but the final product it not squeaky or rubbery at all.  We have not salted it, choosing to salt it at use point instead.  We may try salting it some other batch.  Let me know how it goes!   

[Boofer]

This thread should probably be made into a sticky for "How to craft soft mozzarella".

-Boofer-

[Tiarella]

This thread should probably be made into a sticky for "How to craft soft mozzarella".

-Boofer-

Welllll, don't know what you mean by that but if it's something you can do, go ahead and do it.   

Making another batch right now.  Have to. Other batch is almost gone and me in withdrawal wouldn't be pretty.