Author Topic: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?  (Read 1132 times)

Offline svetlen

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Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« on: September 04, 2013, 09:09:24 AM »
Hi, I am a beginner Syrodel. Now doing brie cheese, used leaven MS 50 Genesis of Bulgaria (composition identical to that of 100 MM) 60 grams of 5000 litres. On 9 liters of milk added 0.13 grams. Drain pH 6.5, and 3 hours drainage has not changed still serum pH 6.5. What is the problem ?
Sorry for my English language I don't know, I use translator, Yandex. :-[


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Offline linuxboy

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Re: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 09:38:27 AM »
You can write in Russian or Ukrainian here if that's easier.

Few possible causes
- Old starter (has the MS50 worked before for you?)
- Temperature wrong (too low or too high)
- Phage infection leading to bacterial death

I would wait and see if the acidity eventually drops. keep temperature at least 26 C.
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Offline svetlen

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Re: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 01:57:34 PM »
Эту закваску использую второй раз, первый был сыр Хаварти и рН понижался нормально. Температура помещения 78-80F, начальный рН 6.6.Температура молока при созревании была 89.2-89.6F, продолжительность  30 минут. Потом добавила сычуг, флоокуляция 24мин *6=1час 44минуты. Нарезала вертикально 2.5-3 см, отдых 10мин. Потом аккуратно мешала и резала полосы на кубы 2.5-3см в течении 15минут, температура 88F, в конце рН 6.5. Затем еще 30 минут при той же температуре иногда помешивая, каждые 10 минут проверяла рН 6.5. Слила сыворотку и положила творог в формы. Через 3.5 часа и два переворота рН 6.4, температура в помещении 75F. Прошло еще 3 часа в одной форме рН сыворотки 6.2, а в другой рН6.3, температура 71F. Планировала вынести на ночь вынести на балкон, где температура 68F и будет падать до 56F. Но наверное лучше оставить в комнате, чтобы рН успел достаточно понизиться. Завтра мне уходить на работу, на целый день и утром хотела посолить.

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2013, 02:24:08 PM »
That's within the range of normal. Use more starter next time to fix the issue. It is a slow acidifier. Also try to keep the curds warm if you want acidification to move faster. 71F is rather low, the acid will take a while to develop. If you want it to go faster next time, ripen a little longer and use more starter. Do not take it outside, it is too cold. Your ambient room temp should ideally be 75F or higher for a traditional, slow acidifier.
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Offline svetlen

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Re: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2013, 03:00:11 PM »
Большое спасибо, за советы :) перенесла в комнату 75F, до 7 утра. Сейчас один рН 5.8, второй рН 5.9.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 03:17:21 PM by svetlen »


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Offline svetlen

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Re: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2013, 05:22:28 AM »
Hi, today is the 9th day of my two brie. They are very poorly covered with mold. The first four days the temperature 14-16 C, mould on one brie side and almost nothing on the top and bottom, second brie even on the sides only a faint hint of the mold. Still tucked in a wine refrigerator temperature of 10-13C. Now after 5 days in the refrigerator, one brie though weak and not fully, but is covered with mold, and other brie only side , and the top appeared a little orange. Humidity in the container 75-80 no longer results.

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2013, 12:37:44 PM »
Uneven mold covering is possibly due to:

- Moisture gradient with different surface aW levels, due to draining or curd size issues
- Outright pH variations within the curd, often these are from salt/temp variances
- humidity issues in the cave. should be 95%+
- air movement. Mold cannot tolerate wetness. Needs oxygen and for the cheese surface to not be wet.
- inoculation rate. might not be enough mold spores on some surfaces.

It's not too bad. I bet if you let it be for another 2-5 days it will cover over completely.
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Offline svetlen

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Re: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2013, 08:41:50 AM »
Yes, indeed, over 4 days completely and there are several spots of pink, very small. One wiped with a toothpick and this place has not overgrown. Now 5 days cheeses lie in the wine refrigerator on the cold shelf at the temperature 5-10 C. All I would hope they are obtained.

Offline High Altitude

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Re: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2013, 07:41:53 PM »
They look amazing now, Svetlen!  Very nice job  ;D.

I will start a camembert next week and also fear I will have slow PC growth as you did.  It seems as if I cannot grow the things I want to grow in my "cave"  (like b.linens on my port salut  ???).  But I will hope for the best and do as you did...wait, wait, wait...it WILL eventually happen.

Please post photos when you cut these open!  Excited to see them.
Have some (homemade) wine with that cheese!

Offline svetlen

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Re: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2013, 12:21:43 PM »
    
Hi! Today, 35 days from the start cooking my brie  prescription  http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/pg/22-Brie.html, on the 20th day wrapped in paper. I could not resist and decided to cut and taste one of them. After 10 days covering mold, this brie spent 24 days in a wine refrigerator at a temperature of 40-52F (5-11C). I finally see the right texture and thin skin, taste a bit salty, but I think so. For me it is still a great success. The second brie lies in the refrigerator at a stable temperature of 5С to long maturing.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 01:54:43 PM by svetlen »


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Offline linuxboy

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Re: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2013, 12:50:21 PM »
You did great! Sometimes, the aging takes time.
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Offline H-K-J

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Re: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2013, 01:08:13 PM »
Very nice looking cheese :)
I have only tried one Brie (about a month ago) it was disappointing, then I read that it should be set out to warm up for a minimum of 45 minutes.
I let it sit out for 1-1/2 hours, what a difference that made.
your cheese looks just like the one we tried,
a cheese to you for your great looking cheese (I think you nailed it)
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Offline svetlen

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Re: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2013, 01:38:58 PM »
Thank you! It was not that long, previous cheese on day 46 of just 1cm soft and solid middle, a lot of crust . But it was the wrong recipe from our sources. I am very happy finding this wealth of recipes and a lot of useful information forum.
 See my one of the first failures of many of the crust and absolutely solid inside bitterly, not brie.

Offline High Altitude

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Re: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2013, 02:35:38 PM »
Just beautiful Svetlen! A cheese to you for your 35-day Brie  ;D!

I also think the "failure" looks good too, but doesn't sound like you were happy with the texture (and taste?) and that's what matters...that YOU like it!

Congrats...
Have some (homemade) wine with that cheese!

Offline svetlen

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Re: Brie, pH not reduced. The problem is?
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2013, 09:07:16 AM »
My second brie who was in the refrigerator at a temperature of 5 C, wrapped in paper. Tasting 48 day, well, very tasty. Tastier than the first one and more plastic.