Author Topic: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk  (Read 2056 times)

Offline Boofer

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Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« on: October 11, 2013, 01:14:07 AM »
I hadn't really intended to make cheese this week, but something drove me to redo a favorite recipe with pasteurized & homogenized supermarket industrial milk. For the past year or two I have been using either creamline or raw (or both) in my makes. The curd behavior and set as well as the end product have been very rewarding, delicious, and consistent.

The makes using creamline or raw milk have been almost "cookie-cutter" in predictability and ease of use.

The make today was nothing like my previous efforts (#1, #2). The floc was 20 minutes. I used a 3X factor just as before. After an additional 40 minutes, I cut the curds. They seemed fairly delicate at that point. I rested them for 10 minutes. The "shattered curds" pic shows them in the 2 o'clock position when I had just started to whisk to smaller curds. I rested them again at that point for 30 minutes to try to firm them up.

I proceeded to whisk gently to reduce the weak curds in size. Several times I wondered whether I should just dump the mess. I was disappointed, deflated, and really surprised that the change in milk had brought such a dramatic and unexpected result. I pondered dumping the kettle down the drain and driving over to pick up some of my "regular", quality milk. I decided to see this experiment through and try to be objective in my observations and conclusions.

I normally perform a curd texture test while cooking to see whether the curds will stick together when squeezed but still fall away from each other fairly easily. This test resulted in no joy. The shattered curds simply refused to do the customary bonding to one another. Matting?...yeah, not happening. :(

Make started 10/10/13 0600hrs

Initial pH: 6.70

1/8 tsp TA-61
1/8 tsp Alp D
1 tsp CACL diluted with 1/4 cup distilled water
1/16 tsp Renco dry calf rennet, dissolved in 1/4 cup distilled water

Pressed the four Reblochon moulds with 15 lbs for 30 minutes (open air, not in kettle, not under warm whey)
Redressed, pressed with 25 lbs for 30 minutes
Redressed, pressed with 25 lbs for 60 minutes

At pH 5.44, removed from pressing and brined for 2 hours, then flipped and brined for 2 more hours.

Removed the wheels from the whey-brine, dried them with paper towels, moved them to their minicaves to dry at room temperature for a day or two.

The snowy whiteness of this milk reminded me of other weak-character products:
  • germ-less, bleached white flour
  • bland white rice
  • no-character white sugar
The stark white characteristic of the industrial cow milk stands out as downright clinical when compared to warmer, cream-hued creamline milk and slightly yellow, rich raw milk.

I do not know what I have created today. My guidance for acceptable cheeses to attempt with supermarket industrial milk was for no long-term cheeses. With that in mind, I decided on a semisoft cheese that would be consumable within a couple months.

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Offline jwalker

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Re: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2013, 08:29:06 AM »
Welcome to my world , those curds look just like almost every make of mine , except for the few makes where I managed to get some raw milk.

Amazingly enough , I have turned out some very good cheeses with P/H store bought milk , especially Gouda type cheeses , the cooking of the curds seems to firm them up and help keep them from breaking into much smaller pieces.

I have found though , when you have those smaller curds , it's best to use way less weight when pressing , I now press with 10 pounds on my Goudas and they turn out great , just opened one yesterday and it was wonderful at six months.

Not sure about other styles of cheese though , but the cooked curd type seem to survive better and actually come out very consistent with P/H store milk , but just use less press weight.



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Offline JimSteel

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Re: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 09:28:39 AM »
Yep, looks about right for me too.

I've found that I have to be extremely gentle with my curds to prevent them from "exploding".  In my last few makes, I've been generous with the CaCl, allowed lots of healing time (though I see you let them heal for 40 minutes) and stirred very delicately at the beginning.  My experiences are highly variable though.  On some occasions, they've ended up like yours(or worse) and on others they held their shape much better.

We'll have to see how it turns out after aging.

Offline Digitalsmgital

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Re: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2013, 10:01:09 PM »
I need to buy some of those mats. Where to purchase them?

I have read here that Trader Joe's Organic milk works well? I'm guessing P&H is the local market?

Regards, Dave

Offline Boofer

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Re: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2013, 08:24:04 AM »
I'm guessing P&H is the local market?
Pasteurized & Homogenized....

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Offline Digitalsmgital

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Re: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2013, 10:20:09 AM »
LOL, I'm an idiot!

"so what's the pH of your P&H"  >:D
Regards, Dave

Offline Boofer

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Re: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2013, 09:05:38 PM »
LOL, I'm an idiot!

"so what's the pH of your P&H"  >:D
First page:   "Initial pH: 6.70"

Umm, this does get easier.  :-\

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Offline JeffHamm

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Re: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2013, 09:46:19 PM »
It's amazing how much of a difference a good source of milk can be.  I've not got easy access to raw milk, but using creamline pasturized milk creates much stronger curds.  My main P&H milk is ok, and doesn't shatter completely, but the curds are not overly strong.  I've started putting the CaCl2 in when I take the milk out of the fridge and leave it to sit while prepping the rest of the equipment.  This seems to help, but the first 10 to 15 minutes of stirring still has to be jiggling or a lot of curds break up.  I find that if the curds have to be cut to 1 cm (around 1/2 an inch) cubes, then it is usually ok, but larger cubes will break up.  The class I took a few years ago used Raw milk and the curds were so much stronger. 

Still, one can make decent cheese with P&H milk, but it is critical to test a lot of brands until you find one that seems to work well.  And it's not always the more expensive ones. 

- Jeff
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Offline Boofer

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Re: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2013, 10:51:19 PM »
The Geo is making its debut so the two minicaves were moved to the caves. This morning, while I was flipping & drying the wheels in one minicave, my peripheral vision picked up a fruit fly hovering near the other minicave. Arrgghh!! Get outa here! It was very perceptive...the minicaves hadn't been out for long when it showed up.

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Offline Tiarella

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Re: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2013, 06:57:34 AM »
Hi Boofer!!!!  I don't have anything to say about your lovely cheeses but wanted to say hello since it's been a while!!!  The milk production is down in my herd since I've been selling and butchering some so there's not a lot of cheese making going on here.  I have offers from goat-owning friends to use their milk and it will come to that but it's funny.....I feel strangely reluctant to use milk that I haven't "grown" and "harvested" myself.  I'll get over that I suppose.  Anyway......glad to see you are cheesing onwards, bringing your care and attention to even less-deserving milks!!!!  Bet you'll be glad to be back to your raw milk.   ;)


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Offline Boofer

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Re: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2013, 08:33:43 AM »
Hi back to you, Kathrin! :)

Yeah, I'm trying to keep my hand in. This whole make was a bit of a lark, trying to re-evaluate the potential for P&H milk. I'm not entirely hopeful about the outcome for these cheeses, but I'll make every effort to be nonjudgmental. :-\

When you get down to herd size you seek, how many animals will there be? I guess it will feel strange using milk from someone else's animals. I'm sure if it's someone you know, that issue will vanish in a puff of Geo.

I saw a horseradish and bacon Cheddar yesterday. Very intriguing. I wonder about the viability and safety of incorporating bacon in one's cheese.

I'd like to make a softer cheese with either some raw or creamline milk. Lately, except for this make, it seems like I've been focused on hard cheeses. I do like that style but I certainly don't want to be a one-trick pony, so I'm leaning towards a semi-hard such as Tilsit again.

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Offline jwalker

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Re: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2013, 08:39:46 AM »
It's amazing how much of a difference a good source of milk can be.  I've not got easy access to raw milk, but using creamline pasturized milk creates much stronger curds.  My main P&H milk is ok, and doesn't shatter completely, but the curds are not overly strong.  I've started putting the CaCl2 in when I take the milk out of the fridge and leave it to sit while prepping the rest of the equipment.  This seems to help, but the first 10 to 15 minutes of stirring still has to be jiggling or a lot of curds break up.  I find that if the curds have to be cut to 1 cm (around 1/2 an inch) cubes, then it is usually ok, but larger cubes will break up.  The class I took a few years ago used Raw milk and the curds were so much stronger. 

Still, one can make decent cheese with P&H milk, but it is critical to test a lot of brands until you find one that seems to work well.  And it's not always the more expensive ones. 

- Jeff

I also just read that if you have no alternative to store bought P/H milk , you are better off buying skim milk and heavy cream and adding them together to better approximate creamline milk , I will be trying that soon on one of my next makes.

Today , I am going to Idaho where I can buy raw milk in the store , I will try to get some back into Canada , technically , it's illegal to bring it back , but we'll see if I can pull it off. >:D

I
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Offline Tiarella

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Re: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2013, 09:34:42 AM »
I won't tell anyone.    :-X

Offline JimSteel

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Re: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2013, 08:44:18 PM »

I also just read that if you have no alternative to store bought P/H milk , you are better off buying skim milk and heavy cream and adding them together to better approximate creamline milk , I will be trying that soon on one of my next makes.

Today , I am going to Idaho where I can buy raw milk in the store , I will try to get some back into Canada , technically , it's illegal to bring it back , but we'll see if I can pull it off. >:D

I

I tried this last month on a 3 gallon Gouda I made.  I did notice quite a difference actually.  The curds were much sturdier and my usual pressing values weren't enough to get a tight knit.  I did not realize it at the time, but after reading your earlier post about pressing weight, it clicked in my head.

Offline jwalker

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Re: Shattered Dreams of Saint Paulin #3 Using P&H Milk
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2013, 12:20:14 PM »
I won't tell anyone.    :-X

Thanks for keeping quiet , I got down to Idaho yesterday and got 4 gallons of low temp creamline milk , looking forward to a make tomorrow , a four gallon Gouda.
No..........I'm not a professional CheeseMaker , but I play one on TV.