Author Topic: The Limburger Regrets  (Read 2369 times)

Offline Boofer

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2013, 08:10:38 AM »
Jim, in case you hadn't already noted, you're enjoying the Slip-Skin Experience. :o  That's when the paste just under the rind ripens faster than the core itself.

You can search on it but for your edification here are a couple links:
HTH,

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Offline JimSteel

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2013, 03:09:09 PM »
Thanks Boof.

Too much humidity is likely the culprit, but as I said there isn't much I can do about that.  Stinks enough here already without cracking the case on this one.  I'll keep washing it until I feel it might need to be peeled off and do whatever I can to lower the humidity.

Offline JimSteel

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2013, 11:01:29 AM »
This is turning out to be a disaster.  I peeled off the outer "slip skin" ring and tried to re-ripen.  The cheese simply will not ripen (what I assume to be) properly.  It is still whitish, and slimy.  Lately I've taken tremendous care in washing very gently not trying to disturb the crust that is forming.  Yes crust.... what?  It looks like it's blooming like a bloomy cheese and the edges are dried out every day when I wash it.  I am currently trying to apply minimal moisture to it and wipe it as gently as possible, it's a very sensitive cheese.  The humidity in the container has topped my analogue hygrometer, sending it over 100% on the device.  So I'm going to leave the container opened and see what proceeds.

The other thing is the smell.  It smells bad.  Now, I've never had Limburger before, so maybe this is what I'm actually looking for.  It doesn't have the pleasant stink of the Port Salut that's ripening next door.  It's like this, nasty, rotting Brevi-linens stench... it just doesn't seem right.  It's not just a matter of being stronger, the smell is different... more like a punch in the face.

Speaking of the Port Salut next door.  I have one ripening in a separate container which is proceeding exactly as I hoped it would.  It is starting to get a nice Linens coat and smells, well, like it should.  (i'm only including this picture to prove that I have some shadow of a semblance of how to deal with this stuff :) )

Offline JeffHamm

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2013, 11:41:20 PM »
Do you have any detailed make notes from when you made this?  I've never made limburger, I'm married and have young children so it would be irresponsible of me to allow such a thing into the house, but from what I've seen it is a very moist curd, something like brie and cams, only far more evil and of malicious intent.  Now, I've made some washed rinds, sort of, a walk on the wild side (RIP Lou), and I do know from those that if you don't get the humidity right the rind will split, which again reflects an imbalance in the moisture. So, with your humidity at 100% danger levels, and the cheese being very wet and near alive to being with, I think you are correct in trying to lower the ambient humidity.  It also may be that you've got a wild geo party going on, and when geo gets out of control it will liquefy your paste pretty quick.  That might be contributing to the slip skin, though that has slip slided away, you now just have the raw runny bits under the scab (sorry, but this is limburger and there is just no pleasant way to describe things of this nature).  You could try adding some salt, directly, to the wound to see if you can beat back whatever is growing, and stop the wash (the brine that forms from the surface salting will be enough for that purpose).  Also, I'm afraid to say it, but yes, open the box and try and get the humidity down to around 90%.  You might also need to let it, sorry for this but, let it sit out on the counter for 30 minutes or so each day.  Have it in a room where there's a fan, but not blowing directly on the cheese, just get the air moving around and make sure the cheese has circulation top and bottom.  If you can get the moisture under control, you might be able to save this.  Remember, this isn't about creating an enjoyable subtle nuanced dainty morsel, this about survival. 

- Jeff 

P.S. Here's what I've got for Limburger from 200 Easy Homemade Cheese Recipes

8 Litres whole milk
1.25 ml (1/4 tsp) meso culture (doesn't specify)
1/8 tsp b.linens
1/2 tsp CaCl2 (in 1/4 water)
Rennet (per instructions)

1 tomme mould (around 6.25 inch diameter)

1) Warm to 33 C
2) Add culture and linens, ripen 5 minutes
3) Add CaCl2
4) add rennet
5) let set 30 minutes (I would take that to be a floc of 2.5 to 3.0 max) maintain temp at 33 C
6) cut curd to 1.25 cm cubes (1/2 inch)
7) stir 10 minutes
8) let stand 5 minutes
9) move to cloth lined colander and drain 30 minutes (shift sides of cloth, etc, to encourage whey removal)
10) ladel into mould
11) place lid on mould and draining container (i.e. drain in pot) and flip once or twice over 8 hours, drain whey from bottom of pot periodically
12) sprinkle cheese with 1 tsp salt, and place this side down on cheese mat
13) sprinkle other side with 1 tsp salt
14) cover and ripen at 10-13, flipping daily, removing moisture from bottom of container with paper towel
15) after a week, begin wiping cheese with a cloth soaked in a saturated brine solution, and flip daily
16) after 12 days or so, an orange/yellow growth will appear
17) run
17) continue to wash and flip twice weekly for 1 month (or longer if you dare want more intense flavour and aroma - that doesn't sound so bad does it?  aroma, hardly the right word I would think - the rind should be moist to the touch, and can become quite strong smelling and gritty with age)
18) once the cheese has developed a rind, toss out wrap and store in an airtight container in the refrigerator of your worst enemy to maintain the rind development.

 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 12:19:29 AM by JeffHamm »
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Offline Boofer

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2013, 08:26:26 AM »
It's not just a matter of being stronger, the smell is different... more like a punch in the face.
Oh I see, more of a delicate aroma.... ::)

a walk on the wild side (RIP Lou)
Do to do to do.... :(

17) run
ROTFLMAO  ;D

Thanks, guys, for giving me a broad grin this morning.

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Offline H-K-J

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2013, 08:42:30 AM »

Quote
18) once the cheese has developed a rind, toss out wrap and store in an airtight container in the refrigerator of your worst enemy to maintain the rind development.
Damn! I snorted my coffee on this one ;) LMAO
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But the ability to cope with it."

Offline JeffHamm

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2013, 01:54:07 PM »
:)

You know, as I look at these make notes, it's got some interesting aspects to it.  For example, it seems to have a short floc time, which tends to suggest a drier paste.  However, it has no scalding, and minimal stirring, which favours moisture retention.  Then, it is drained, to get rid of excess moisture, but there's no pressing, so moisture retention.  No wonder it is "not like the others", and I could see the excess whey causing problems (which would explain the slip skin issues).  The trick to this will be getting the whey out, but not drying it out at the same time.  I think it could be a very interesting result, and if the wash and rind development is not taken to the extremes, could be quite a nice washed rind cheese.   Hmmmmm .......

- Jeff
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Offline JimSteel

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2013, 03:35:33 PM »
Hey Jeff, thanks for the input, just got home and pulled out the makebook.  Let's see what I can pull together.  Heads up, my scientific understanding of whey retaining techniques vs. those that would liberate moisture are limited.  I just follow the recipes in the book and make note of whether again to touch them or not.

4 Litres P-H whole milk
1.25 ml (1/8 tsp) meso culture (doesn't specify)
1/16 tsp b.linens
1/2 tsp CaCl2 (in 1/4 water)
Rennet (per instructions)
3% wash with a pinch of linens.  Replacement wash solutions have not included additional linens.

1 tomme mould (around 5 inch diameter)

1) Warm to 33 C
2) Add Calcium Chloride
3) Add culture and linens, ripen 5 minutes
4) add rennet
5) let set 30 minutes (I would take that to be a floc of 2.5 to 3.0 max) maintain temp at 33 C (temp went up to 34 C)
6) cut curd to 1.25 cm cubes (1/2 inch) (sloppy cut)
7) stir 10 minutes (did not let heal more than 2 minutes, curd got demolished, small, but holding shape)
8) let stand 5 minutes
9) move to cloth lined colander and drain 30 minutes
10) ladel into mould
11) drained for 8 hours, curd mass was very loose initially.
12) 1/2 tsp salt on each side.
14) ripened in container for 1 week, collected the drained whey, which was plentiful, with towel.  once whey stopped leaking, smell became less potent.
15) washed to develop schmear, but cheese was very soft and schmear ended up very thick and slimy.
16) Rind forming strangely, slip skin incident etc.
17) moved into a new environment approx 55-60F and 90% humidity.  Washing the "new rind."

And the rest is history.  So I've been pretty close to the recipe in the book.  I'm considering adding a touch of salt as you suggested.  I am also afraid to take it off of it's wooden board to "increase circulation on the bottom".  I have scrape the cheese off of the board every day with a large putty knife to prevent pieces of rind getting stuck to the board.  I think if I put it on a cheese mat, it would just melt through.  (I don't know if that's a common problem, but It's happened with all 3 of my washed rinds so far.  This putty knife solution works pretty well, but is more like a treatment for the symptoms of what I assume to be a greater problem.)

And yes, I am hoping to make this a mild version, so it probably won't be a real Limburger at all.  That is if I don't end up tossing it.


Offline JeffHamm

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2013, 06:10:26 PM »
Well, sounds like the make followed the plan well enough.  You could try flipping twice a day to see if that helps reduce the sticking to the board.  Keep at it.  Looking forward to seeing how it goes.

- Jeff
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Offline jwalker

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2013, 06:30:45 PM »
The other thing is the smell.  It smells bad.  Now, I've never had Limburger before, so maybe this is what I'm actually looking for.  It doesn't have the pleasant stink of the Port Salut that's ripening next door.  It's like this, nasty, rotting Brevi-linens stench... it just doesn't seem right.  It's not just a matter of being stronger, the smell is different... more like a punch in the face.

Yep , that sounds like Limburger to me , it's the only cheese that I couldn't eat , terrible stuff.

I bought a package once , opened it up and almost puked , so I handed it to my dog , he grabbed it and held it in his mouth for a few seconds then spit it out and ran to his water dish to wash his mouth out.

No kidding , he wouldn't take food out of my hand for about three months afterwards , if I gave him anything , I had to set it down first so he could check it out before touching it , just in case I was pulling another "Limburger" on him. ;D ;D ;D

Ahhhhh Limburger !!!!!!!!!!! :-\

I hope your cheese gets well soon. ;D

No..........I'm not a professional CheeseMaker , but I play one on TV.

Offline JimSteel

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2013, 07:58:11 AM »
Okay, new update.  Things are looking up, but I challenge the expertise of our cheesemakers to explain this development.  I'm including two pictures which show the new  yellowish rind on my Limby.  It has dried and hardened quite a bit while remaining just slightly damp.  Every time I wash it (which is twice a day sometimes) it has a strange powdery whiteness on it, which I just wash into the rind.  I'm not sure if this is mold or microscopic salt crystals forming daily.

It does not smell anymore.  I have to get really close and take a good whiff to smell the linens.

One morning a dime sized glob of paste leaked out (hole is healed) which I tasted with surprising discoveries.  Hard to describe the flavour, a mostly musty with a spicyness, and something that I could only describe as "peaches"

Ripening it a 55°-60° and about 90% ± 10% humidity

This is new to me, any thoughts?

Offline JeffHamm

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2013, 11:54:12 AM »
Hi,

Ok, the white could be salt crystals, or geo mould.  Taste them, that should tell you.  The cheese is improving because your previous problems were due to the outer rind sealing int he excess moisture.  Once it "slipped", and you peeled it away, all the excess moisture, which was trapped, has been removed.  The inner core of paste, luckily, seems to have been ok.  Once the outer rind was removed, your moisture loss is now at the appropriate rate and it seems to be developing fine.   Keep an eye on the white powder.  If it is geo, it will start to soften in the cheese, and could create a second slip.  Otherwise, I suspect you're just behind in the linens growth, but it will return.  Sounds like a save.  A cheese to you.
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Offline Boofer

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2013, 10:04:10 AM »
Looks great, Jim!

I concur with Jeff, the gritty white coating sure looks like Geo to me. Good stuff...nice pic.

Seems to be on-track and quite normal. How much longer will you ripen it?

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Offline JimSteel

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2013, 03:28:04 PM »
I don't know how long I'm ripening it.    It's still pretty stiff, but the edges still have the skin slip problem, though much less severe.  I might see a pinhole each day where a tiny drop of ooze is seeping out, and it's just on the edges, not the flats.  I was thinking of washing it to a deep, smelly, potent orange.  I invited my friend over for Limburger sandwiches when it's reveal day comes, so I want there to be some kick.

I tried tasting it Jeff, not enough fluff to get a pinch.  I considered licking the wheel, but some kind of aura/ telepathic barrier emitting from the cheese prevented this.

What are the implications of a Geo and B. linens rind?  I've never heard of this before other than in your St. Paulin thread.  Is it because it doesn't happen or because it is such a common side effect that no one mentions it?  I thought that a brine wash would stop anything else from growing on the surface and molds might appear afterward when the rind was drying out.

Offline Boofer

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Re: The Limburger Regrets
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2013, 08:33:48 AM »
I considered licking the wheel, but some kind of aura/ telepathic barrier emitting from the cheese prevented this.
:D

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