Author Topic: Oberlander-Rot  (Read 978 times)

Offline Alpkäserei

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Oberlander-Rot
« on: October 28, 2013, 02:11:42 PM »
Here is a cheese made on July 7 2012. This is a hard cheese made in the style of Berner Alpkäse AOC, with a few variations (such as the purple rind)

I cut this open just today, and am letting it sit a little bit before eating (Yes, most cheeses are best right when first cut into, but I have experienced that many Alpine types improve and open up their flavor after a short time in the air)





This cheese has a softer paste now than its partner did at 7 months, which is very typical of the harder Alpine cheeses, they undergo dramatic change after  or 7 months of life as lactobacilli work to soften and flavor the paste, then after a year to a year and a half they harden and sharpen intensely.

I am very pleased with the rind on this cheese, it is very well developed, has excellent color and excellent transition into the paste. I'll write up on flavor notes later, when I have a few other opinions.
Guät git's dr schwiizer Chäser


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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: Oberlander-Rot
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2013, 02:36:07 PM »


Tasting...

Rind is spot on. Not as much red wine flavor as I had hoped for, more or less a standard BL/wine type flavor like I expect out of white wine, but then again the initial washing WAS done with white wine...
Flavor and texture vary throughout the cheese, which is expected as this cheese as not as old as these often would be aged to. The flavor is a good medium sharpness (by Swiss standards, most Americans I think would consider it rather sharp) and is for the most part right on. It only lacks the herb overtones typical of Berner Alpkäse.

The flavor is nutty and spicy, the cheese is aromatic and handsome.

Holes are mechanical, which is a minor flaw but not as much of a flaw as gas holes would be in this type of cheese. No gas-producing bacteria appear to have grown, which is good.

The paste toward the center is softer and crumblier than I would like, which is a trait of the curd not being brewed and cooked quite enough, however toward the edge it is more solid. Texture affects perception of flavor, to me the softer, crumblier paste of the center is inferior -I prefer the harder, firmer cheese. Others like it the other way I know.
Guät git's dr schwiizer Chäser

Offline H-K-J

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Re: Oberlander-Rot
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2013, 03:29:57 PM »
Beautiful!!!! you definitely deserve a cheese for that ;D
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Offline JeffHamm

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Re: Oberlander-Rot
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2013, 04:35:11 PM »
I agree.  A cheese to you for a very nice looking cheese.  You suggest it is typical to age this a bit longer, so how much longer would you typically age this? 

- Jeff
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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: Oberlander-Rot
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2013, 04:55:42 PM »
It's not necessarily typical to age it longer, but it is better longer. On the Alp where I learned, they preferred their cheese at least 2 years old and considered a year old cheese to be young, the standard is that it cannot be sold before 6 months, and after 14 months it can be relabeled and sold at a higher price.

I like it 3 years, but it is super sharp then.

Almost none of my cheeses sold will be aged longer than this, as the flavor becomes too sharp and strong for the taste of most Americans.
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Offline JeffHamm

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Re: Oberlander-Rot
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2013, 06:45:16 PM »
Ah, got it.  Thanks. 

- Jeff
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Offline Boofer

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Re: Oberlander-Rot
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2013, 08:51:02 AM »
(by Swiss standards, most Americans I think would consider it rather sharp)

the flavor becomes too sharp and strong for the taste of most Americans.
These two quotes caught my attention. It's interesting that, though America is a melting pot with many diverse nationalities, that you visualize "most Americans" as uni-dimensional, stereotypical persons. I do not mean to criticize or take issue with this opinion...I just found it striking.

Good looking cheese and nice taste review.

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Offline dthelmers

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Re: Oberlander-Rot
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2013, 09:12:12 AM »
I find most of my fellow Americans to have very similar tastes, and I notice regional accents disappearing or becoming modified, and for the same reason: they all consume the same things, and their tastes and speech homogenize. Supermarkets across America sell the same brands and styles of cheese, and this is what they are used to, no matter what ethnic and cultural background they came from.
Although there is a lot of movement toward a wide variety of traditional foods and beverages, the majority of folks have not joined in. Whole Foods in my area has a wider variety of cheese than I had ever been exposed to, and I discovered things like 2 year aged Gouda, who's existence I was unaware of before that. I've never seen an aged Alpine cheese, and many of the cheeses I see being made on this forum are untasted by me. I never had tasted any Cheddar but Cracker Barrel until I was 17.
Until I joined this forum, I thought that President brand Brie was the best thing ever; I asked on this forum for help in making it.
Instead, I listened to Iratherfly and made a Chaource from his recipe, and it re-oriented my understanding of these types of cheese.
I guess that the best thing for a professional cheesemaker to do is make cheeses that are accessible and appealing to the general supermarket raised tastes, but better, and educate them with small batches of the better stuff, much as many distilleries do.
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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: Oberlander-Rot
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2013, 11:05:43 AM »
Boofer,
it's not that i view americans as uni-dimensional etc. it is that i fihd American tastes in certain foods tend to be a lot different from their original sources. cheese is a good example of this. even in our own ethnic swiss-german communities, tastes are heavily americanized. sauerkraut is a good example, for many of us this was once a staple food. today it is rare and not as many of us enjoy it.

dthelmers hit the nail right on the head. it has little to do with ethnicity, and everything to do with availability. if my children will only have access to supermarket factory foods, they wont have a taste for the handmade foods that i got to grow eating. it doesnt matter how swiss I teach them to be, if i buy their food in town, that is what they will think is good.

from a business standpoint you got it right on too. my opening lineup is going to be young -softer cheeses with milder flavors and short aging profiles and, over a period of years, i'll try to introduce hard aged cheeses into the local market -they are practically nonexistant at this time, so i cannot expect success if i launch into the market something strong and smelly. add on top of that, i am bringing to market a flavor profile very different than anything people are used to. so i feel like milder is better at first. i cant expect the market to adopt my tastes, just because i assure them it is good.

i didnt take offence, please dont read that into my reply. just want to make clear my position.
Guät git's dr schwiizer Chäser

Offline Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Oberlander-Rot
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2013, 12:07:51 PM »
Alp,

I do a lot of Farmer's Markets every weekend and we see a lot of European as well as American customers. It is definitely about availability and convenience, so many people have moved towards milder and softer cheese. For example, one of my best selling cheeses is my Butterkase, which I find too bland for my taste.

The one consistent exception is our British customers. They like their cheeses, especially Cheddars, on the drier and crumblier side. They especially like my Caerphilly because I make it a little acidic. Whereas many Americans might find it too "tart".
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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: Oberlander-Rot
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2013, 12:29:47 PM »
Day 2,

as observed in the opening post, the full flavor of this cheese is not immediately evident upon opening. Today, the full flavor profile has openend up and the paste has stablized. the flavor now is much more intense, the nutty and spicy flavors have intensified and some almost fruity overtones are present. i am now very pleased with this cheese, overall it is very very close to the cheeses produced in switzerland.
Guät git's dr schwiizer Chäser

Offline Pete S

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Re: Oberlander-Rot
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2013, 02:50:22 PM »
                         A cheese for a great cheese.     
          From your description I would like it very much  .   Pete
THE MORE I LEARN----THE MORE THERE IS TO LEARN---PETE

Offline Boofer

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Re: Oberlander-Rot
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2013, 07:21:22 PM »
Day 2,

as observed in the opening post, the full flavor of this cheese is not immediately evident upon opening. Today, the full flavor profile has openend up and the paste has stablized. the flavor now is much more intense, the nutty and spicy flavors have intensified and some almost fruity overtones are present. i am now very pleased with this cheese, overall it is very very close to the cheeses produced in switzerland.
Sounds good...have you kept it at room temperature for this flavor?

I would agree about the availability of products, but over the past several decades (wow, did I just say that? ::)) I've seen a lot of push-back...a desire for something different and/or better than what was available. I started brewing beer in 1974 when the beers available were the three swill dominators: Bud-Miller-Coors. Sometime thereafter the craft beer miracle gestated and today we have many more beer choices. I see the artisan cheese phenomenon following a similar path. People don't know what they don't know. They didn't know their tastes would change towards more fully flavored beers. If given the opportunity, I'm sure they would happily welcome new tastes in cheese. Who wouldn't like a semi-hard or hard cheese like Beaufort? Or a soft or semi-soft cheese like Saint Paulin? Sorry, guess I was showing favoritism. ;)

I used to tell my stepson and my grandson that "it's all in the presentation". If offered in an appealing way, a product stands a more than even chance of being accepted and, if properly marketed, clamored for. Perhaps one of the best marketing companies, Apple, could promote and sell all kinds of cheese to the public. "You didn't know you wanted it until I told you that you couldn't live without it." Picture it now, a line of hopeful and excited shoppers waiting outside of the local cheese shop, yearning to get inside and get their wedge of tasty cheese. 8)

Sorry, I didn't REALLY mean to hijack the thread. A)

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Offline Tomer1

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Re: Oberlander-Rot
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2013, 05:04:03 PM »
Its hard to mass market a non industrial, non traditional product. The brits, french and germans are used to ales and flavorful cheeses.  Others... not so much. they eat what they are told to - bland industrial stuff because as you said, they dont know otherwise.   

Personally I've been eating (real) cheese even before I started making it.  One of the main reason I make it is because its so damn expenssive, even the poor quality stuff. (not all artisan cheeses are good unfortunatlly, some just buy a small herd of goats and jump into it without being very skillful)
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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: Oberlander-Rot
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2013, 05:39:40 PM »
To further clarify,

In the Canton of Bern and really much of Switzerland there is a very strong tradition of sharp aged cheeses, and I mean REALLY sharp.
Guät git's dr schwiizer Chäser