Author Topic: Gouda PH targets... missing the mark  (Read 296 times)

Offline bgreen

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Gouda PH targets... missing the mark
« on: January 04, 2014, 03:29:33 PM »
Hi all

I recently have made several gouda cheeses using this recipe.  I use 16 litres of milk though and adjust ingredients and washing amounts etc.

http://www.wacheese.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=81:gouda-washed-curd-howto&catid=43:moderate-cook-temp&Itemid=66 Thanks Pav

I am using a primer culture using 160ml Flora Danica and 160ml MM100.  I increased the amounts from 1% when the pH targets were not met.  When i used freshly made primer cultures i managed to meet the pH targets... first time, so i thought i was on to a winner.  I then froze the remaining cultures. ( i understand that frozen culture should be just as effective as fresh) Since then i am finding that the ph marker is achieved very quickly prior to adding rennet... often 5 - 10 mins. , however from healing the curd and washing the curd the pH does not seem to want to drop below 6.5.  At the final pressing i am managing to get the correct pH marker of 5.6.

Initially i thought it was the pH meter, but this seems to be working well.

So am i doing something wrong in my technique?.... i think i am following the recipe to the letter.

What is the recommended way to thaw primer culture that has been frozen? 

Could there be a problem with the culture?... this is only 1 month old since being frozen and i have had the same issue with other batches of culture.

The cheese seems to have good form, and is tasting as i would expect.

Your thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Bruce
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 07:47:21 PM by bgreen »


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Online Spoons

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Re: Gouda PH targets... missing the mark
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2014, 04:10:55 PM »
I did that recipe twice over the holidays and had the same problem. In both cases, the milk starts out at 6.7-6.75 and by draining I can't get lower than 6.55-6.6.  I used 1/8tsp MM100 along with 1/8tsp Aroma B for 2 gallons of milk. After about 5 hours of pressing at 4.88PSI on both cheeses, I got the final target right.

I was thinking of slightly increasing the quantity of MM100 the next time and see how it goes.

I don't have an answer, just saying I went through something similar with the same recipe.

Mr. Pav Linuxboy, Could you please weigh in on our little troubleshoot of your own gouda recipe?
- Eric

Offline bgreen

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Re: Gouda PH targets... missing the mark
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2014, 04:22:01 PM »
Thanks Spoons.... that is sort of reassuring knowing that its not just me!  I also pressed at about 5psi and after around 6hrs hit the target pH.  I had used what i thought was the highest rates of primer culture... 2%.  Is it possible or recommended to use more?  I guess i could adjust the ratio by increasing MM100 and reducing the Flora Danica as another alternative... will await someone in the know then.


Cheers bruce

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Gouda PH targets... missing the mark
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2014, 07:51:27 PM »
Quote
So am i doing something wrong in my technique?.... i think i am following the recipe to the letter.
No, that's just how gouda making goes. For gouda, you have to pick a starting point and then follow the rest based on time. And the time used follows a predicted pH curve based on a make without the wash. Washing messes with the readings. The starting point is the rennet pH, or the change in pH from initially adding starter to point of rennet add.

Quote
What is the recommended way to thaw primer culture that has been frozen? 
Add directly to vat. It'll sort itself out.

Quote
I was thinking of slightly increasing the quantity of MM100 the next time and see how it goes.
At home scales, it honestly won't make a bit of difference to be 10-20% off. It sorts itself out so long as culture is fresh for DVI. For primer/bulk starter, of course it matters. It's a bit of a shocking thing to say, but really, the end results are nearly identical with slight starter amt variation. Not so for large  vats, however.

Quote
Could you please weigh in on our little troubleshoot of your own gouda recipe?
Didn't see this thread before. Stick with the rennet pH target and the rest should work.

Quote
2%.  Is it possible or recommended to use more?
mmm, maybe up to 2.5% in small batches. Shouldn't need to, though.

Quote
I guess i could adjust the ratio by increasing MM100 and reducing the Flora Danica as another alternative
Unless you do an adjustment of 20%+ one way or another, final flavor will be about the same, though pH curve will shift a bit. Don't sweat it, it'll work out at written. pH is just one guidance and way to focus on what's going on underneath the surface.
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Re: Gouda PH targets... missing the mark
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2014, 07:58:34 PM »
Oi! Thanks Pav!  ;D
- Eric


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Offline bgreen

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Re: Gouda PH targets... missing the mark
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2014, 09:37:48 PM »
Hi Pav

Once again thanks for the informative and quick reply!  Very reassuring..... just one other quick question re adjusting the amount of milk used in your recipe.  I use 16 litres of milk and in the first wash remove 5 cups of whey and replace with heated water... second and third washes i remove 8 cups of whey (2 litres) each time and replace with heated water.... do those amounts sound about right?

Thanks again... cheers bruce