Author Topic: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans  (Read 21118 times)

Spoons

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2014, 02:40:57 AM »
I finally made v.2.0.

This version has holes at 1/4" increments. The stainless steel frame is also thinner, it's still 16GA but this one is only 0.5" wide.

This will make the 1/4" cuts much easier. Can't wait to try it.


Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2014, 01:03:03 PM »
Nice piece of design and definitely worth another cheese. Thanks for sharing.
- Andrew

Spoons

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2014, 06:54:39 PM »
Thanks Raw Prawn but it turned out a bit of a disappointment. I made a jarlsberg yesterday and wanted to cut the curds to 1/4". The thing is, the curd knife just kept pushing the curds around without cutting them. Even with super thin fishing wire, it required too much pressure. So I ended up using my other curd knife with the 1/2" cut and used it until most cubes were cut down to pea size.

Lesson learned; 1/4" curd knives don't work. They put too much pressure on the curd mass, and force whey to expel too quick.

Offline scasnerkay

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2014, 02:20:41 AM »
So did you use the 1/2 harp twice or a few times through to cut them down? That is my strategy.
Susan

Spoons

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2014, 02:40:27 AM »
For a 1/4" cut, or pea size:
I do the 1/2" cut carefully with the harp in a grid pattern. That way I know each cube is 1/2" in size. Then I just stir with the 1/2 harp until most cubes are reduced to pea size. This is usually about the first 5 minutes of stirring. Then I switch to the perforated spoon for stirring once I'm satisfied with the curd size. I do get some grain sized curds though, it's not perfect. That's why I created the 1/4 harp, I wanted to achieve the pea sized cuts more efficiently. 

I'll try your strategy. So you do 2 "X" cuts, then 2 "Y" cuts then horizontally?

Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2014, 03:10:39 AM »
Love the design work and I know I've had issues with curd knives recently.  The image is my new one and I'm not all that happy with it.  I found it to just pushes the curd around as well.  It is also of the same gage material in your harps.  My opinion it's not the design - it's great. It's the flat edge that is pushing through the curd. And grinding it to an edge isn't the total solution, as the knife here has a .25 mm edge (could be finer though) - It needs also to be polished.  I think the 1/4 inch one would work if the edges were sharpened and then polished.  I have a set of double round boilers and the issue I find is that although I can cut the vertical cuts resonably accurately, it the horizontal ones that get me. not accuate at all - not matter what I do they end up too big and shaped like a funny polygon :'( .  Solution, I'm going to make the 1/2 model and do the horizontal cuts (discs) first and the vertical cuts next. Love the offset handle BTW.

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Spoons

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2014, 03:24:33 AM »
Here's a real simple solution for your horizontal cut in a round vat
http://cheesemakinghelp.blogspot.ca/2013/11/making-horizontal-curd-cutter.html
So simple and effective!

I'll sharpen the edges as you suggest, but my 1/2 harp is the same gauge and doesn't push the curds. I'll still try it though in my search for the perfect 1/4 cutter. Thanks Mal.

Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2014, 05:53:31 AM »
OMG !!! sorry to sound naf and tweeny! but talk about literally out of the box !! I'm on a misson now - this could be made all stainless and . . . .what an amazing thing.. gob-smaked and so simple.  Humbled by the simplicity . . My problem solved.

-- Mal
   
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John@PC

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2015, 12:41:02 PM »
Thanks Raw Prawn but it turned out a bit of a disappointment. I made a jarlsberg yesterday and wanted to cut the curds to 1/4". The thing is, the curd knife just kept pushing the curds around without cutting them. Even with super thin fishing wire, it required too much pressure. So I ended up using my other curd knife with the 1/2" cut and used it until most cubes were cut down to pea size.

Lesson learned; 1/4" curd knives don't work. They put too much pressure on the curd mass, and force whey to expel too quick.
Kern and I were discussing curd cutters off-line and he reminded me of your elegant design Spoons.  I think you mention that you have to "re-string" after each use: I assume your using monofilment?  If you go to braided (30# test or so) it will eliminate much of the stretch.  You can also steam sterilize.

I've used our 6" x 6" square frame design for some prototype 1/4" cutters (still just personal use) and the braided line works great.  I get a little bit of sag on some of the strands but when you cut the curds the saggy lines cut just as good as the tight ones ;).

As for the "pushing curds" problem I found that if you insert a knife or spatula on the opposite side your cutting it stabilizes the curd mass.  The wider the blade the better; a rectangular piece of plastic works well too.

I've got some pics and video somewhere of using this method; if I can dig it up I'll post it on a fresh topic for continuing discussion of cutters for rectangular pans.

   

Spoons

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2015, 03:50:51 AM »
I did re-string it every time a first, but not anymore. It washes quite easily with soap and COLD water. The threading doesn't show signs of loosening up even after 10+ uses.

Thanks John for that ''Pushing curd'' problem solution for a 1/4'' cut! Can't wait to try it next time :)

Kern

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2015, 04:48:47 PM »
I did re-string it every time a first, but not anymore. It washes quite easily with soap and COLD water. The threading doesn't show signs of loosening up even after 10+ uses.

Thanks John for that ''Pushing curd'' problem solution for a 1/4'' cut! Can't wait to try it next time :)

Spoons,

I've followed your progress with this cutter and have a couple of questions with respect to your problems with the 1/4 inch cuts.  As you know commercial cheese makers buy custom made harps in this size and apparently use them without difficulty so I'm wondering if the problem you've had is related to your design or technique.  Hence, the questions:

Are you making the horizontal cut first?  This is the way the "big boys" do it.

If you are making the horizontal cut first is the second cut made in the long direction or short direction (vat length or vat width)?

When you make the cut with your harp are you putting your fingers on the corner opposite the handle to help prevent the the drag of the curds from rotating the harp so that it is not perpendicular to the direction of movement?  Note that pictures of large commercial harps show the handle in the center of the harp and not outside the edge that exists in your current design.

Have you attempted to use braided SS fishing wire on the 1/4 inch cuts?  At the same test strength the SS wire will have less than half the diameter and present less drag.

Kern


terry@dairy fab

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2015, 03:13:47 AM »
I build cheese knives for the cottage cheese industry that are wired both horizontally and vertically in cut sizes from 1/4" to 5/8", and frame sizes up to about 40" x 40". Two of these knives are set side by side and are pulled down the vat mechanically by attaching them to the agitator mounted in the track above the vat. On the outside edges of both knives are side wipers that direct the cheese through the knife rather than going around the  knife at the vat sidewall. These vats are up to 80" wide and 40 feet long. Because they are driven through the curd mass, getting the curd through the knives is not a problem. I don't think this can be done successfully by manually pulling a knife through the cheese, even on a much smaller scale. Increasing the cut size will allow the curd pass more easily but I still see problems.

Terry@ Dairy Fab

www.curdknives.com

Kern

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2015, 03:39:13 AM »
Thanks Terry.  We could make some serious cheese in that vat!   ;)  One issue we "hobby" cheese makers have is curd cutting.  We recognize the importance of cutting the right size curd consistently and repeatably and how it affects our final product.  Any ideas you have about how to make small cutters that could be drawn through small vats (think four gallons) to accomplish this would make you a hero to many on this forum.   ^-^

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2015, 08:15:05 AM »
. . My problem solved.

-- Mal
   


I built one of these (with modifications) last year. The basic design has since been improved upon by Awakephd:
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13485.0.html
I think that there may have been some more recent posts relating to this too.
All I can say is that I've been very pleased with mine. It certainly beats trying to do those angle cuts wth a knife.
- Andrew

Offline awakephd

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Re: Spoons' Curd Knife Build: Built for food pans
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2015, 05:59:47 PM »
Yes, I continue to be pleased with my design -- very repeatable, easy to use, etc. -- but keep in mind it is really only suited to round pots.

Incidentally, I'm intrigued that the professionals make the horizontal cut first -- when I've tried it that way, I don't get as good results; it seems as though the curds tends to knit back together more (due to the weight, I guess), whereas if I make the vertical cuts first, then the curds a a little more free to separate.
-- Andy