Author Topic: Chaource style cheese made of ewe's milk  (Read 1365 times)

Offline Tiarella

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Re: Chaource style cheese made of ewe's milk
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2014, 07:24:36 AM »
Sometimes the white of the PC wears thin on some edges.  If there is really orange showing it might be B linens joining the rind party.  That might give it a strong cheese flavor.....   I'm answering only because no one has answered with more experience than I.  I had this happen to some shitake mushroom Brie cheese I made and the flavor was not what I like.  You may like it a lot......and I'm not even sure if I am correct with my guess of what is happening.  My advice would be to gently feel all the cheeses and open the one that feels softest.  See if you like how it tastes now in order to assess whether you are likely to enjoy the direction the flavor is going in.
Good luck and post back here because I'm curious!   :)


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Offline insilva

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Re: Chaource style cheese made of ewe's milk
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2014, 12:53:45 PM »
thank you for your answer. I am quite sure it isn't Brevibacterium linens. I think it is the first thing you suggested, that the PC is a bit low on the edges and I think the Geo comes through then. I have been at the market this weekend and looked for a chaource there and could see one with quite the same colors (off-white to yellow, at least a bit of orange maybe :) )

I'm curious too and will give it a try end of this week, I think.

Offline John@PC

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Re: Chaource style cheese made of ewe's milk
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2014, 06:55:26 PM »
If there is really orange showing it might be B linens joining the rind party.  That might give it a strong cheese flavor..... 
I know you like making bries so my question is does the b. linens "crash" the party or bring refreshments 8)?  I think corynebacteria has established a home in my cave (my doings; washing with it makes such a great soft rind on my pressed cheeses), and I did detect an orange tinge to the rind of my last brie before the white overcoat and an aroma of Reblochon.    I guess my question is is this a good thing or a bad thing? 

Offline insilva

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Re: Chaource style cheese made of ewe's milk
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2014, 07:53:15 AM »
Maybe this attachement from Fundamentals of cheese science (book) may help you. Because B. linens is a secondary flora on the surface and it is obligatory aerobic it will only grow on the surface and accelerates the ripening of a cheese. Normally it is found on smear-ripened cheeses (very popular here in Austria). It is therefore responsible for the "stinky-sock" odor.

I would recommend to read the little snippet from the book. I hope I could help you.

I think if you liked the cheese, I mean how it turned out in the end it cannot be bad to have it in the cave. However if you want a traditional brie you wouldn't want it in a great amount, I think. Then you should bring it to another room. I think if the conditions for PC and maybe GEO are ideal in another room, you wouldn't have any problem to establish a geo-pc rind only. Especially if the surface is covered fast with geo. If the surface is colonized, there is not as much space (or nutrients) for the others.

And you can read it below, only if the amount of bacteria is really high (10^8 or 10^9/g) it would make a difference. Therefore I would experiment a little bit.

I think it would be more critical to have PC on the other rinds in a great amount or bad molds as Aspergillus niger.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 08:06:45 AM by insilva »

Offline John@PC

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Re: Chaource style cheese made of ewe's milk
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2014, 06:28:32 PM »
Thank you so much for your advice, insilva - definitely worth a cheese for you.  I always wondered how the B. linens could impart it's distinct aroma within the paste, but it sounds like the aroma is confined to the surfaces?  That begs the question if I take a Limburger or German (sorry,  Austrian) Tilsit if I cut the rind off would it still have the aroma?  I haven't tried that because I love the taste and aroma.   After I read Alp's post on smear ripened cheese I've adopted that for most of my pressed cheeses with great success.  The pictures below show (1) what I call my "honey pot" with a B. linens / salt solution I've been nurturing for about 5 months, and a recent Caerphilly that I'm smear-ripening with it.  That said if anyone has comments about whether the B. linens is the not the best bacteria to surface ripen a Caerphilly please let me know.



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Offline insilva

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Re: Chaource style cheese made of ewe's milk
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2014, 02:45:05 AM »
B. linens is a respiratory species, that means it metabolizes methionine to methional (sulphur compounds), which is responsible for the aroma ("dirty-sock odor"). It should smell like apple, my cheese teacher said, not somehow bad, moisty-moldy-…. If B. linens grow is good or not so good depends on NaCl concentration in the brine (ideal 8%-10%, if its B. linens), they need amino acids and vitamins to grow (shouldn't be the problem) and the cave temp. should be between 10-15°C (depends on the cheese made), although B. linens has its optimum temp. at 20-25°C. Also it won't grow below a pH of 6.0. The intensity of the aroma depends on the B. linens strain you take for your cheese and also on the washing method of the cheese, it makes a difference whether you brush it or rub it with cloth. If you brush it, more little particles will go of the surface and therefore a bigger surface area is achieved, with more metabolization and more O2 for this aerobe bacteria. Nevertheless the aroma gets into the cheese while ripening by diffusion processes. This is why the aroma gets less intensive towards the core of the cheese, and also the reason why your local cheese monger will cut triangles for customers to taste the entirety of the cheese's character. For a rise in pH you could introduce GEO to the party (but it will most likely appear unrequested) :)

For your Caerphilly, I have no experience at all. However the production is one of an internal bacteria ripened cheese, not surface ripened. Which means that it is not especially brined with B. linens on the surface. This is what I found in my books, to this cheese. I can post you what it says about it: Caerphilly, which originated in Wales, is a crumbly acid cheese. It is made from pasteurized cow milk using calf rennet and a mesophilic starter. The curds are cooked to 32-34°C and held at this temperature for about 1 hr. The whey is drawn off and the curds are collected at the bottom of the vat, where rapid acid production occurs. Some dry salt (1%) is added to the curds before molding and pressing overnight. The pressed curds are then brine-salted for 24 hr and packaged. Caerphilly matures rapidly and is ready for sale after 10-14 days.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 02:58:19 AM by insilva »

Offline Tiarella

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Re: Chaource style cheese made of ewe's milk
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2014, 06:50:15 AM »
I have never heard of B linens smelling like apples so I want to know how to achieve this.  Any hints?  My B linens cheese don't smell musty or like mildew but they do have strong smell of stinky body.   ???

Offline insilva

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Re: Chaource style cheese made of ewe's milk
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2014, 07:52:53 AM »
Hahaha…I don't know, but I can only confirm it did smell like freshly pressed apple-wine after just a few days of ripening, it was really fruity, while also stinky. And when I entered their really amazing and big cave in Tyrol with just smear-ripened cheeses it did smell kind of apple-like overall or maybe like a peace of fresh cabbage. I have to inform you, that they have a own laboratory, where they isolate their own cultures, which cheesemaker can buy there as a liquid culture. The smell will mainly derive from the relation of gases, such as Methylmercaptan, Dimethyldisulfid, Dimethyltrisulfid and others.

It doesn't mean that there is a smell exactly like apple juice, but there is a sweet odor near to it given in the cave and also stinky.

So in the end the cheese turned out really fresh and clean, with a mild to aromatic flavor.

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Re: Chaource style cheese made of ewe's milk
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2014, 10:07:20 AM »
Hahaha…I don't know, but I can only confirm it did smell like freshly pressed apple-wine after just a few days of ripening, it was really fruity, while also stinky. And when I entered their really amazing and big cave in Tyrol with just smear-ripened cheeses it did smell kind of apple-like overall or maybe like a peace of fresh cabbage. I have to inform you, that they have a own laboratory, where they isolate their own cultures, which cheesemaker can buy there as a liquid culture. The smell will mainly derive from the relation of gases, such as Methylmercaptan, Dimethyldisulfid, Dimethyltrisulfid and others.

It doesn't mean that there is a smell exactly like apple juice, but there is a sweet odor near to it given in the cave and also stinky.

So in the end the cheese turned out really fresh and clean, with a mild to aromatic flavor.

That sounds nice.  Maybe if I had a real cave instead of converted refrigerators and freezers I'd have better luck with sweet smells.  I did have one hard cheese that was a natural molded rind and whenever I brushed it off there was a very lovely strong smell of very sweet fruit.  I'll attach a photo of it.  I wish I could attach the smell of it so you could smell how sweet it smelled!   ::)

Offline insilva

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Re: Chaource style cheese made of ewe's milk
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2014, 10:55:31 AM »
The cheese looks really great. Would you mind to send me the recipe (maybe also ripening temperatures & humidity) for a Caerphilly with natural rind? How old exactly is the cheese on the picture.


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Offline Tiarella

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Re: Chaource style cheese made of ewe's milk
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2014, 11:35:48 AM »
I'm so sorry but I don't remember these details because it was from last year.  It was aged in a plastic box with the lid propped open in a cold room over winter.  I aged it longer than most Caerphilly chees, probably several months.  It may have been exposed to some Mycodore because it was in the same area as some Mycodore tommes I was aging.  I remember it tasted very good.  There is a Caerphilly recipe in The book by Gianaclis Caldwell.  There is a  good basic Caerphilly set of makes here also.  This blog is by the New England Cheesemaking Supply Company and it's all guest articles.  Down in the right column there are links by cheese type under the heading "Labels".  The link I'm going to post here is the webpage I got when clicking on the Caerphilly link.  It has a collection of 3 guest bloggers with their versions of Caerphilly.  I like Gavin's the best here although I use recipes from the books I have also. 

http://cheesemakinghelp.blogspot.com/search/label/Caerphilly

Offline insilva

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Re: Chaource style cheese made of ewe's milk
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2014, 05:14:48 AM »
Finally I cut open one of my Sheep'ource, the real cause of this initial post :)

I am so happy with the result. This is the one I have already wrapped in foil a week ago. The others I wrapped later to see the difference between them in a week from now.

The cheese is very soft at the edge and is creamy, directly out of the fridge. I hope the others turn out the same way, but I do think so.

The aroma of the cheese is very mild right now, it smells and tastes of mushrooms and is a bit acidic (like freshcheese but more lively/tangy) in the middle (at the core). It is not bitter at all, and fits perfectly to dark double baked bread.

I am thoroughly happy to be able to eat them all :) Certainly I will share some of them :D