Author Topic: Valencay noob questions  (Read 530 times)

Offline Marta

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Southeast Michigan
  • Posts: 52
  • Cheeses: 4
  • Gouda ya do!
Valencay noob questions
« on: February 08, 2014, 06:07:39 AM »
Good morning, experts!  I have been wanting to make a valencay for years.  I have assembled all the items I need (except the milk) but now I am getting cold feet.  I've never done a moldy before and goat's milk is so expensive...  I'd like to do a "dry run" or two with cow's milk.  The book I have is "200 easy" which calls for 8 quarts of goat's.  So, my questions:

Can I just substitute cow's milk and follow the same recipe and instructions?
Can I cut the recipe in half?  What are the newbie pitfalls of this?

If the answers are "no" to both, can someone point me to a relatively detailed cow's milk valencay recipe?

Sorry if these are beginner questions but it's a frozen Saturday morning in February and my cave has transferred to a 50F basement closet so there's room in the wine cooler... time to take it to the next level   :)

Thanks in advance,
Marta


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline Digitalsmgital

  • Mr. Fancy Pants
  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Riverside, CA
  • Posts: 258
  • Cheeses: 19
  • Default personal text
Re: Valencay noob questions
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2014, 09:14:18 AM »
G'morning Marta!

I hesitate to answer because your post suggests that you have more experience than me  :) but my 2¢ is don't cut the dry-run make in half unless you plan on using 4 quarts of goat's milk. Also, use a bit more rennet than the goat milk recipe calls for when subbing cow's. And not sure about this, but I'd try a little lipase powder to emulate the goat milk.

Stay inside and keep warm!
Regards, Dave

Offline Marta

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Southeast Michigan
  • Posts: 52
  • Cheeses: 4
  • Gouda ya do!
Re: Valencay noob questions
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2014, 09:43:58 AM »
Thanks for the suggestions!  And I doubt that I have more experience than you.  Besides, I've only made hard cheeses, and I tend to follow recipes very precisely until I know what I'm doing. 

Offline Digitalsmgital

  • Mr. Fancy Pants
  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Riverside, CA
  • Posts: 258
  • Cheeses: 19
  • Default personal text
Re: Valencay noob questions
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2014, 10:28:26 AM »
I enjoy making and eating hard cheeses, but only have 7 under my belt. (Poor choice of words...I have eaten three)

When I can get raw goat milk I like to make fresh cheeses but I don't count those.
Regards, Dave

Offline JeffHamm

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
  • Posts: 2,628
  • Cheeses: 158
  • As goes the cheesemaker, so goes the cheese
Re: Valencay noob questions
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2014, 11:33:48 AM »
Hi,

Most recipes can be halved or doubled without much problem.  Goat's milk is often heated a couple degrees less than cow's milk, so add 2 deg. C to your make temperature and cooking temperatures.  I wouldn't add lipase for the first make, in part because I've found it is easy to use too much and throw off the flavour you're trying to get.  If you do add some, just add a couple grains so you can say you did! :) 

As for rennet, recipes give amounts which could be way off for you, depending upon the strength of your rennet.  I have 3 different rennets that I use, one is super strong, one very weak, and one in the middle.  To get 10 Litres of milk to floc in 10-15 minutes, I use 0.6 mls of the strong but  about 7.0 mls of the weakest!  So as you can see, "1/4 tsp, or 1.25 mls" of either of these is going to be way off.  So, use an amount of rennet proportional to what you usually use (i.e. if you normally make 8 Litres and now are making 4, cut your usual rennet amount in half, etc). 

Most important, make sure you keep very detailed notes, post them here, with photos! :)

- Jeff
The wise do not always start out on the right path, but they do know when to change course.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline Marta

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Southeast Michigan
  • Posts: 52
  • Cheeses: 4
  • Gouda ya do!
Re: Valencay noob questions
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2014, 04:09:40 AM »
Will do!  Thanks!

Offline Tiarella

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Chester, MA, US
  • Posts: 1,618
  • Cheeses: 70
  • Default personal text
    • Farm Blog
Re: Valencay noob questions
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2014, 06:37:42 AM »
I agree with Jeff about skipping the lipase and it being okay to cut your recipe on half.  On Valencay style cheeses you'd be making several probably so cutting the amount in half just means fewer cheeses which is different than when you cut a hard cheese recipe in half and you get a smaller cheese with all the potential rind issues that can go with that depending upon the type of cheese, aging needs, etc.  I also agree with him that posting notes and photos is important so that rest of us can learn and/or have cheese envy!   :)

lso, I have experience making this style of cheese in a bunch of different sizes and shapes so don't fret if you don't the standard molds.  It just means the ripening schedule will be different.....as in with smaller ones you'll get to eat them sooner! 

Offline Geo

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Tasmania, Australia
  • Posts: 368
  • Cheeses: 31
  • Default personal text
Re: Valencay noob questions
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2014, 01:27:05 PM »
Another reference point - if you do have the Valencay moulds, I've found that 2 litres, predrained, fills one mould perfectly.

Offline Marta

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Southeast Michigan
  • Posts: 52
  • Cheeses: 4
  • Gouda ya do!
Re: Valencay noob questions
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2014, 01:17:33 PM »
Thank you all for the replies!  I have four of the "proper" pyramid forms and one round form and if that isn't enough I guess I'll find something around the house.

As for the milk, my only attempt to use goatsmilk so far was a complete fail, so I'm a bit leery. 

I have made quite a few parmesan-type and Gouda cheeses (because that's what we like to eat), a couple of cheddar types, and the infamous fontina described in another thread ... which found its way to the table nevertheless.  Valencay may not be that exotic to anyone else but to me it has always been intriguing and I've been scheming to have the time and ingredients to make some.  This weekend is it!   

Offline Marta

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Southeast Michigan
  • Posts: 52
  • Cheeses: 4
  • Gouda ya do!
Re: Valencay noob questions
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2014, 04:34:28 PM »
Well, I did the deed on Feb 14..  using the recipe from "200 cheeses" and cutting it in half.  I used twice the rennet because my rennet was a little bit out of date.   It's kind of a good news bad news thing.  Everything went pretty well... except that I had to coagulate it at a kind of cool temp.  Nevertheless I had curd the next day and, suffused with over-confidence, I started scooping curd into the moulds.  Nope, the curd was way too soft.  Alarming quantities of curd drained out the wee holes.

So I decided to stop and let it sit a little longer.  I was flummoxed for awhile, until I heard the chorus of cheesemakers calling from the sidelines: "pre-drain!"  That worked pretty well.  I placed the now more solid curds into the molds and continued with the mould draining.

After 48 hours the cheeses were pretty much solid enough to unmould, though still extremely soft.  I decided to press on regardless, salting and ashing as directed.  After about an hour or so they started to sag and lose their shapes, so left the lid off the ripening container so they could dry out a bit. 

After about 4 days in the 50 F cave I have 8 of these (they look harmless enough):



     


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Online GlabrousD

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: UAE
  • Posts: 111
  • Cheeses: 11
  • Cheese Based Lifeform
Re: Valencay noob questions
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2014, 12:58:43 AM »
That looks great Marta... have you tasted them yet?

Cheers, GD.

Offline JeffHamm

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
  • Posts: 2,628
  • Cheeses: 158
  • As goes the cheesemaker, so goes the cheese
Re: Valencay noob questions
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2014, 01:55:08 AM »
Yes, that looks really good.  And nice save with the pre-drain! A cheese to you.

- Jeff
The wise do not always start out on the right path, but they do know when to change course.