Author Topic: Craigslist Score - True T-12  (Read 2590 times)

Duntov

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Craigslist Score - True T-12
« on: August 25, 2016, 05:43:45 PM »
I have been on the hunt for a single door refrigerator to convert into another cheese cave.  I didn't want one with a freezer compartment and it had to be on the small size and only counter depth.  This is a tall order unless you go out and purchase a high dollar commercial unit.  I saw an ad that was poorly written and had just one picture of the inside of the unit.  Looking at the picture I could tell it must be a commercial unit because of the shelving and clips.  Asking price was only $250.  So I call the guy and he didn't speak very clear English but arranged to see it.

Well, it turned out to be a 12 cubic foot True T-12 stainless steel commercial unit.  He had it plugged in and it was nice and cold inside.  After some back and forth negotiating, I got it for $150 and he loaded it into my truck for me.  Not bad considering a new one is about $2,000 USD.  He had used it at his pizza shot before he retired and it has been used and abused.  This thing is nasty dirty and makes me wonder how clean the cooking areas are in the restaurants I frequent.  Egads!

The nice thing about a True is that they have been making them for decades and still do and any part is still available.  I am in the process of tearing it down for some deep cleaning and inspection.  So far I have only had to order a new door seal, door handle and light cover.  I was going to use an external controller but then found out they make a T-12 for red wine.  A quick check online and I found the proper thermostat to swap in.  So now I just need to decide how I am going to deal with controlling the humidity. The mini ultrasonic humidifiers I find put out too much fog too fast that results in condensation in my mini.  But it might workout well in this True with the evaporator and fan inside.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 09:10:15 AM by Duntov »

Offline awakephd

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Re: Craigslist Score - True T-12
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2016, 04:18:11 PM »
Very interesting. Looking forward to the pictures!
-- Andy

Offline Fritz

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Re: Craigslist Score - True T-12
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2016, 02:29:48 AM »
Looks like you got a good bargain...dare I say, a steal... Congrats!
The dirt is superficially.... Quality hardware is where the value is... I've got 4 Danby silhouette series fridges... Man, they are good...basicly the Cadillac of the Danby Line...

I use those ultrasonic humidifiers in line with a $5 timer that have (on/off) tabs for every half hour... One timer does multiple humidifiers if you have multiple fridges. The duty cycle allows time to distribute the humidity and your right ..the fans help keep it from getting wet inside..

Have fun cleaning :)
F

Duntov

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Re: Craigslist Score - True T-12
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2016, 04:42:59 PM »
Since my last post I have pressure washed inside and out, sanitized, installed new refrigerant line insulation, repainted the inside and a host of other work.  Now I am addressing how I want to humidify with the least amount of hassle and be efficient.

Below is a crude illustration of what I am thinking of doing.  First I want to wire the circulating fan with a switch so I can make it run constantly instead of just on when the  compressor is running.  My reasoning is that I want circulation also when the humidifier is on.  This should keep temperature and humidity uniform in the entire cooler as-well-as get accurate RH% and temp readings at the sensors.

One thing that has always bothered me is the constant refilling of my humidifier.  The original configuration is that the evaporator drip pan drains to the exterior drip pan.  I am thinking of running it to the internal humidifier reservoir instead as a constant feed of water. 

So what are the pros and cons that I may not have considered?

 

Offline Gregore

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Re: Craigslist Score - True T-12
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2016, 04:13:26 AM »
If I was going to make a cheese cave that was not going to use plastic boxes for keeping the humidity up ( as I do now ) in not then I would think about having something inside that can obsorbe the moisture and hold the air inside at the right humidity.  Something like a lot of wood or some other natural  thing like sand stone . 

if my fridge was a little bigger that is what I would do , not sure if 12 cubic feet is quite big enough for that kind of thing

Duntov

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Re: Craigslist Score - True T-12
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2016, 07:07:12 AM »
Thanks Gregore for your comments.  However I have tried static water/sponge solutions in my 3.9 cubic foot wine cooler and they didn't help much at all.  In my climate which is very hot and with the cooler being in my garage, the compressor works pretty hard keeping the temp at 55F.  That zaps the humidity out of the cooler pretty fast and I get at least 1 gallon a week in my catch bottle.  The 12 cubic foot cooler I have now is three times that size and about par with the average size household refrigerator less the freezer section.

I have used plastic containers for controlling humidity but it was a real hassle having to air them out daily to prevent ammonia build up.  The cheeses were never as-good-as the ones aged in open air.  Especially the bandage wrapped cheeses.

The main purpose of my last post wasn't so much about the type of humidifier I am using as it is capturing the condensation from the evaporator to automatically refill a reservoir for humidity control whether it be a ultrasonic type or a simple sponge bath arrangement.

True T-12:



Offline awakephd

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Re: Craigslist Score - True T-12
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2016, 03:03:50 PM »
Duntov,

It sounds like you are making a lot of progress on putting this "cave" into action. I wish I knew enough to make an intelligent comment on your proposed design for humidity ... but then again, ignorance has never kept me quiet up until now, so here's my thought:

I'm guessing that the drain and reservoir system is workable, BUT you will need to monitor carefully for mold build up throughout the system.

I did wonder a bit about the effect of constantly moving air due to the fan ... but on the other hand, with RH of 85% or so, maybe that is not a concern.

I look forward to your continued progress and success!
-- Andy

Offline Fritz

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Re: Craigslist Score - True T-12
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2016, 06:27:31 AM »
Hey Duntov,
Much like awake', I claim no subject matter specialty on fridges and humidity.... I do however have 6 cheese fridges in the basement cave that I maintain and can share my experiences with... They are Danby silhouette models or 45-65 bottle type wine coolers style fridges. That hopefully paints a picture to what I've got.
My humidity seems very stable in the low to mid 80s, simply by keeping the fridge full of cheese. Being waxed or maturing boxes (with holes). Plastic wrapped cheeses of course are in a separate fridge ... Don't care about humidity there.
I used to use ultrasonic humidifiers when the fridges were half full. With the dryer winter coming I will have to probably put the humidifier back in ... And I also use a DC fan that is connected to the same timer as the humidifier set to 1/2 hr on 1/2 hr off. Seems to do the trick and only have to refill once ever 2-3 days... So quite manageable.  I've also toyed with the idea of externally fed water to the humidifier bu haven't come up with a plan yet..
When reading your post, I had a concern about the runoff water being used to feed the humidifier. I use bottled spring water to fill the humidifier ...,used to use distilled water.. With the idea of clean and filtered water not clogging up the micro components providing the misting action of the ultrasonic humidifier. And clean water vapor on my cheese. I fear there would be micro particles and waterborne molds and mildews eventually as the fridge ages with your idea of using the drippings off the condenser and drip tray. Ether creating a clogged humidifier, or worse, contamination of some sort. I have no science to support this... Just paranoid thinking. ..lol

Good luck moving forward..
F

Offline awakephd

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Re: Craigslist Score - True T-12
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2016, 01:46:34 PM »
Ooh, I hadn't thought my concern all the way through - not just mold build up, but spraying it out onto the cheese - !
-- Andy

Duntov

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Re: Craigslist Score - True T-12
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2016, 09:44:53 PM »
I am not so worried about the fan moving air and airborne mold around.  Heck, that happens every time one opens the door to their cave.  I have seen numerous man made commercial cheese caves that have air movement designed into the rooms.  Real cheese caves are lined with mold on the walls and ceilings that hastens the rind development on cheeses.  Moving bad mold around I agree could be a problem but moving good mold can be a benefit.  As-far-as mold in the return water and clogging the humidifier could be a real problem.  But I think a simple filtering system could work out fine.

Hey, we won't know and learn unless we (I) try it, right?  If problems arise, it would be easy for me to configure back to the drip pan draining to the outside and a outside water storage to gravity feed the humidifier.

Duntov

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Re: Craigslist Score - True T-12
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2016, 04:24:47 PM »
Just a little update.  I decided you guys have a point about possibly having too much air movement.  I have put together my control unit to include a fan speed controller.  I now can adjust the fan to have air movement as-low-as a baby's breath.



I have also been reading up on humidity control options. I have tried a decent size evaporative wick type in my mini wine cooler and it didn't work well at all.  I have also used an ultrasonic one but it introduced condensation very quickly.  I think that if you can see the fog, it is dumping too much moisture too quickly.  Another problem with ultrasonic foggers is that they will fog cantaminants from the storage water unlike evaporation types.  So now I am thinking of putting together a mini swamp cooler for adding moisture.  Thoughts on that?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 04:35:56 PM by Duntov »

Offline Gregore

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Re: Craigslist Score - True T-12
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2016, 06:35:07 AM »
 I do not think there is such a thing as bad mold on cheese , just not the mold you had planned .  Like blue on a cam.   Tommes have everything that floats all over them and they taste dam delicious

 Linuxboy once said on here that cheese will not host dangerous molds  so anything that you are throwing into the air should not be a problem , I need to try to find that quote from him  and have it put on the main page of this forum .

Now that is not to say that the water could not host something else that could effect your cheese  there are a whole lot of other germs and bacteria that might be of some issue , but a uv sterilizer from the aquarium industry should take care of anything that could get into your water . You could probably set it to pump the water through it a few times per day , you could have the whole system sit inside the water  reservoir  tank  so no worries of leaks in the plumbing