Annatto - Response To CaCl2?

[Webmaster]

Forum member zenith1 made an interesting post in a thread of Havarti Making #2 records by member John (OK also me).

I thought that post was worth it's own thread thus this original post and moved Zenith1's post here.

[zenith1]

John wheel looks good. I did have a question about your procedure though. I noticed that you added cacl to the milk and also the annatto coloring. When ever I have added cacl and annatto I get no(or very little)color in the final curds. If I use just the coloring and no cacl I get nice color in the final analysis. By looking at the pictures you have posted this seems to verify my results. Have you noticed this in your cheese making, or is this an anomaly in my procedures?

[Cheese Head]

zenith1, that's an interesting observation and a good topic.

There's a good thread here on Annatto and how it work and that color darkens over time from milk to curds to aging, plus I built a food colorants info webpage here. But nothing on Annatto's response to CaCl2.

Me, I haven't noticed that effect of less colouring in end product when using CaCl2 as I'm always using CaCl2 as I'm always using store bought pasteurized and homogenized cow's milk.

Maybe someone with more experience knowledge can comment . . .

[DeejayDebi]

Zenith I think you have made a good point there.

I noticed when I made a batch of Havati back in January that it was just slightly colored with store bought milk. I adjusted my recipes to that amount of amatto.

A few months later I made another batch using raw milk and I almost needed sunglasees. I never did figure out why as a used the same amount. I thought maybe I needed to shake it or something.

[zenith1]

OK-so then it was not a procedural error on my part as some other members have made the same observations. To me it was never a big issue because I liked the way the cheese looked in it's natural state. Still, some types of cheese just beg for a little more color.

[DeejayDebi]

I have a family that won't eat white cheese so I have to add a drop or two to everything. Sometimes just a hint of off white will do it - weird!

[Baby Chee]

I'm going to start using my Annatto soon, and I use CaCl2.

Any advice on how I should approach so I get color without day-glo Velveeta?  My big goudas kicking in around mid-November will be 28 to 30 gallon batches with CaCl2 added.  How much liquid Annatto should be added?

I'm using the Dairy Connection stuff, sold by the pint.

[Boofer]

Just another datapoint:

For my last Colby I tried to be more efficient. I put my distilled water in the measuring cup and added the CACL2 as per normal. Thinking I would more easily combine everything, I then added my annatto to the same container.  Wrong!!  The coloring very clearly separated and precipitated out. Instead of a nice homogenized colored liquid I ended up with colored, blotchy liquid with pieces of annatto suspended.

Needless to say, I threw that mess out and made separate solutions of CACL2 and annatto. That worked much better. No floaters! 

-Boofer-

[Cheese Head]

Boofer, thanks, I've read that Rennet will degrade if dilute it in the same container that Annatto was diluted in but nothing about CaCl2 & Annatto, thanks.

[Baby Chee]

When I make a cheese, I put the cold milk in the covered pot with CaCl2 for the night (10 hours max) and allow it to hit room temp (which it never does, and remains around 65ºF or below).  So I never add the CaCl2 as late as most.  The culture goes in when I warm the milk enough in the morning, then the rennet about an hour later, depending.

I will add my distilled water/annatto just after the starter is stirred in.

[Boofer]

That's an interesting point. Should the CACL2 be in contact with the cold milk from the get-go and be allowed to "work" for some period of time prior to adding the cultures and proceeding with the business of making cheese?

I have normally added the CACL2 when the milk went into the kettle and then the temperature was raised. Not really any lag time. Does the CACL2 need time to do its thing? I am assuming the addition of calcium (from the CACL2) will actually proceed fairly quickly and its nothing to fret about.

Any other better advice?

-Boofer-

[Alex]

I think all the ingredients should be added at the starting temperature 28-32 deg C.

[Baby Chee]

My uneducated logic is that the CaCl2 doesn't do anything specifically helpful within the milk: it is pasteurized and "dead".  So I put it in and let it mix for a LONG time when possible   Last night I added CaCl2 and this morning I had the biggest cheese yet from the same volume milk... but it could be the annatto or the liquid smoke, since I never used those before.