Author Topic: The rinds of Pyrenees Tomme family v. Savoie Tommes  (Read 432 times)

Online ArnaudForestier

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The rinds of Pyrenees Tomme family v. Savoie Tommes
« on: February 25, 2014, 07:18:34 PM »
Aside from milk differences, what would you say distinguishes the rinds of Pyrenees tomme family cheeses (e.g., tomme de pyrenees, garrotxa, ossau, all related cheeses, in other words) from the Savoie tommes? 

I know the Pyrenees styles get Mycoderm and Mycodore; I know a washed rind that includes PLA, or a wash that includes various linens is very different from a mould-centric rind.  What else?  I ask because by my eyes, although I do find some very smooth rinds on savoie tommes, I also see heavily mottled, thick rinds that to me, anyway, suggest what I see in the Pyrenees as well. 

Secondly, it's been bugging me for awhile but it's probably been buried:  I've seen mycodore described as both a yeast, and a mould.  Does it exhibit characteristics of both?  How about Mycoderm?  What moulds are we talking about, that inhabit Pyrenees rinds? Mucor?  Others?

Finally, I know Vermont shepherd is a sheep's milk cheese, styled after the Pyrenees region.  What of Elk Mountain?  I know it shortchanges Gianaclis's creation (after all, it is her cheese, and not a region), but if you were to talk regional European influences, where would you place the cheese?

Thanks, thinking on rind characteristics.

Paul

« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 09:34:06 AM by ArnaudForestier »
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Online ArnaudForestier

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Re: The rinds of Pyrenees Tomme family v. Savoie Tommes
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2014, 09:36:47 AM »
Let me say it this way.  Or rather let me paraphrase Paul Kindstedt, who describes these two regions' tommes as "close cousins, sharing many similarities," along with Italian alpine makes.  Does one find the white/grey/brown Mycoderm/Mycodore rind in both the Pyrenees, and the Savoie?  Thinking on a "classical" presentation, how would you describe the two, in terms of their production - the species, whether by nature or by pure culture inocilation; the technical make aspects - differences and similarities?
- Paul

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Re: The rinds of Pyrenees Tomme family v. Savoie Tommes
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2014, 02:18:38 PM »
Concentrating once again on tommes and beauforts.  Just bumping this in the event one of the experts see it and can chime in.  I'm going back over old notes and seeing something to the effect that mycodore has no place anywhere in the Savoie, though it's rife in the Pyrenees region. 

I also know from old makes, the heavy dependence of PLA and linens, too, was likely off, for tomme.  I know I'm seeking a mold, and not a coryneform basis.

Anticipating spring, raw, Ayrshire milk, I would like to get as much transparency as possible, though nudging the make towards some butter and nuttiness, even fruitiness to a very light extent.  So:

Is this accurate - one doesn't find the mycodore/mycoderm basis in Savoie cheeses, in this instance, tommes?

With pasteurized milk, adding in some LBC82, MD89.  With raw milk, depending on yeasts and geo for de-acidification, and are we basically talking natural rinds, with local mold ripening?  Suggest DH (KL71)/Geo, a touch of MVA, and just see what happens at 90% RH? 
- Paul

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Re: The rinds of Pyrenees Tomme family v. Savoie Tommes
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2014, 04:51:12 PM »
This pic is hard to make out, I know; sorry, guys.  So far, very underwhelmed on the development.  This is after a month:  washed daily 2/3 to 2/9, and left alone since, so 3 weeks, 2 days, untouched.



I see a good white blanket - don't honestly know if this is just the yeast, the mycodore, or the micrococcus (MVA), but there's certainly nothing in the way of "cloudy" or "hairlike" mold development.  I can't see any mold, actually.  Smell is of faint cellar, however.  And very nice. 

The geo is that of PLA, so I don't know if it tends to yeast behavior or mold. 

I have a younger tomme with less development, but that one got KL71, DH, Geo 13, Mycodore, MVA.  Similar, white blanket developing but no mold, that I can see.  There is some faint pinkish development within the white blanket, which I presume to either be the KL71 (never used it), or some ambient linens.

RH 90%, 55F.  Can anyone advise?  (Bueller?)

Thanks,

Paul
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Re: The rinds of Pyrenees Tomme family v. Savoie Tommes
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2014, 05:19:07 PM »
Can anyone advise?  (Bueller?)
LOL Paul.  I know your tired of bumping this so I'll do it for you (especially because I can't come close to giving you answers).    My last cheese was a Tomme-style (Caldwell's recipe) and just started to wash it today.  I can only hope it looks as good as yours  ;).


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Offline Tiarella

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Re: The rinds of Pyrenees Tomme family v. Savoie Tommes
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2014, 07:03:09 PM »
Hey Paul, I'll bump this one too!  Hope you get an answer.  I can't help you with this but you can check out my recent thread in the lounge to see some scary thick natural rinds.  I think the thread title is "I should be arrested".  You can't miss it if you look.  I used Mycodore and MVA and had some over humidity problems as the post explains.   :o

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Re: The rinds of Pyrenees Tomme family v. Savoie Tommes
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2014, 12:25:52 PM »
Lol, thanks, guys, getting sort of lonely in this tomme town.  I'll check out your thread Tiarella, but I suspect there's nothing you do that is anything short of extraordinary!

Just laid a very stripped-bare tomme down yesterday, Peter Dixon's recipe.  Very little in the way of adjunct, no mycodore, MVA, geo or yeast added in, will see what happens in the cave.  I suspect I just don't have enough natural flora in these small coolers, and not enough circulation to have much success at a truly natural, pleasingly molded, wheel.  Will report in as progressing. 

Thanks again for the hug in this paltry thread, friends.  Happy weekend. 

Paul
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