Author Topic: Cheese: No success so far...  (Read 2432 times)

KatKooks

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Cheese: No success so far...
« on: March 23, 2014, 05:55:26 PM »
I have succeeded in making round cheeses where the curds bind together, however the aging process seemingly escapes me.  I am struggling to control mold, create a natural rind in my caerphillys and tomme, and develop flavour.

The 2 cheeses I have tasted so far taste sour....so I'm panicking.  Is it normal for a sour taste to develop before the cheese matures?  If a cheese has been vacuum sealed will it taste more sour?

I am including a list of my completed cheeses, some of which I chose because of their short aging time....Predominantly taken from my readings in "Mastering Artisan Cheese Making".

Halloumi - texture & taste good (too salty a brine)
White Stilton w Cranberries - (4 w) sour
Wensleydale - (4 W) sour
Parmesan
Cheddar
Alpine Style Tomme
Caerphilly 1
Caerphilly 2
Romano

I can post the makes, however they follow the guidelines in the book and temps and timing are controlled.

Please help...advice, comments, suggestions....are welcome.  I am so very concerned that nothing will turn out....I feel so silly to have jumped into this assuming things would go well ...

Spoons

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Re: Cheese: No success so far...
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2014, 06:32:06 PM »
Hang in there Kat, you're on the right track  :)

Sour Taste can be a number of things
*Too much rennet; follow the usage rate on the rennet package, not the recipe.
*Took the cheese out of the bag and sampled it right away. A cheese needs to "breath" once taken out of a vac bag. The taste will settle down after a few hours.
*Cave temp too high: make sure you follow the cheese type's ripening temp, usually between 10-12C.
*Not aged enough: a cheese tastes weird when too young. Don't open a cheese before it's minimal ripening time is done.
*curd not drained appropriately.

If you're trying a natural rind, your cheese may take up to 7 days before being done with the "air-drying" process. Humidity and temp control are paramount, so make sure you have a good control over them, that way you can eliminate those two factors when troubleshooting.

I'm not one that can give you many tips on rind development, I'm too lazy for rind control and such, so I just use cream wax. Cream wax has a mold inhibitor and lets the cheese develop a rind. So you get the benefits of a rind without fighting off mold. Using culture with mold control properties is also another way to make natural rinds easier.

Don't give up, Kat. Troubleshooting is a big part of cheesemaking. You'll get the hang of it. You're on the right track!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 06:40:53 PM by Spoons »

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Cheese: No success so far...
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2014, 07:31:09 PM »
The sour taste is most likely happening because of residual whey, which allows the bacteria to continue to produce more acid (i.e. sourness). There are LOTS of things you can do during the make to minimize that - smaller curd size, longer cooking, a little higher temperature during cooking, more stirring, better draining, etc. And since the cheese can't breathe, vacuum bagging will definitely trap residual whey. Bagging per se doesn't make the sourness worse, but it also doesn't allow the acidic conditions to improve as the cheese ages. (whatever goes in the bag, stays in the bag). So... it is really important that your cheese be dry enough before bagging. SOMETIMES you can let a sour cheese breathe for a few days and it will improve significantly.

KatKooks

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Re: Cheese: No success so far...
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2014, 09:08:06 PM »
Thank you for your kind words of encouragement... I am trying to be patient.

Sailor, I think my cheese is pretty dry but I'm definitely going to be very cautious during my next make in controlling curd size and how much why is left in the curd.

Eric, I really appreciate your thorough response.   The Caerphilly suggests a 3 week turnaround but I've also read that it needs longer.  What do you suggest?  ...I don't know what it should even taste like.

Not being a fan of soft cheeses, I am trying to make a hard crumbly cheese successfully.  Do I wait to try another make until I have tasted a success in what I already have aging?  I'm just not sure where to go at this point...

Again, TIA for your assistance....please pray to the cheese gods that they be kind to me! 

Spoons

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Re: Cheese: No success so far...
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2014, 09:25:27 PM »
A 3 week old caerphilly tastes like fresh/young curd but with an acidic taste. I prefer it at about 7-8 weeks where the young curd taste is mostly gone and the acidic taste now has a sharpness to it. 

Do I wait to try another make until I have tasted a success in what I already have aging?  I'm just not sure where to go at this point...

We all go through this type of "uncertainty" phase when we first start out. We all do. So don't worry, what you're feeling is quite normal  :) I've been making cheese 4 years and I still have challenges from time to time.

I say go for it! Do another cheese. Just revise every technique you do to make sure each step of a recipe is properly done (consistency of curd size when cutting for instance). So you may need to tweak your technique as you gain experience.

Good luck!

GlabrousD

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Re: Cheese: No success so far...
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2014, 05:28:28 AM »
Hiya Kat,

I'm extremely new to cheese making (less experienced than you) but I'd suggest a gouda or blue gouda. Once made you only have to brine, dry for a week and wax (probably something of an over-simplification) but you get a solid cheese at the end of the day.

Best of luck. Cherers, GD.

KatKooks

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Re: Cheese: No success so far...
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2014, 01:20:20 PM »

 I'd suggest a gouda or blue gouda. Once made you only have to brine, dry for a week and wax (probably something of an over-simplification) but you get a solid cheese at the end of the day.


Thanks for the suggestion GD, but every gouda I've had is soft and I'm just not a fan.  Is it possible to make a Gouda style cheese that has a harder and more crumbly texture? 

GlabrousD

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Re: Cheese: No success so far...
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2014, 01:50:53 PM »
True indeed Kat, Gouda is relatively soft... not like a Brie though :)

The Dutch do another waxed cheese called Old Amsterdam (https://oldamsterdam.com/) which is similar to an aged Gouda but with a texture akin to Parmasan... that would be a fantastic cheese to try but would take years to age I suspect. A far wiser Forum Member will be able to advise I'm sure.

Otherwise I'm out of ideas I'm afraid :)

Cheers, GD.

KatKooks

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Re: Cheese: No success so far...
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2014, 01:43:02 AM »
Thanks again for the feedback everyone. I'm waiting to taste success before I make any more cheeses.  I have chosen some fairly laborious makes from a maintenance standpoint, and have some home rents in the process, so i just need to wait a bit. 

I finished a feta that tastes good but is softening in the brine.  I have removed it from the brine and will re brine in a stronger cal chloride solution (based on my readings here) in the morning.

In the meantime, I am going to start another thread for suggestions for my next make!  Feedback very welcome.

Cheers!