Author Topic: Bioprox MT1001 - Similar to MA4001 and MA4002?  (Read 1755 times)

Offline CaffeineFlo

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Bioprox MT1001 - Similar to MA4001 and MA4002?
« on: October 02, 2020, 02:32:58 AM »
Hi everyone!

I hope someone can help me with this:
I've recently ordered my cultures at a new shop and they exchanged two of my items since what I ordered was out of stock/expired...

Obviously not what I wanted, but I need to make the best out of it.

I initially ordered some MA4002 to make some Alpine Washed Rind cheese (recipe from Jim Wallace) but received Bioprox MT1001 instead.

Looking at the compositions it's

MA4002:
Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis;
Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris;
Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis biovar. diacetylactis;
Streptococcus thermophilus

MT1001:
Lactococcus lactis subsp.lactis,
Lactococcus lactis ssp lactis biovar diacetylactis
Streptococcus salivarius subsp. thermophilus.

So from what I can tell, two strains are different, but I am not sure how this will affect any cheese I'll make with this culture (and what other cheese I can potentially make with this culture).

I was hoping someone here could here could tell me and help a beginner out?!

Thanks

Offline mikekchar

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Re: Bioprox MT1001 - Similar to MA4001 and MA4002?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2020, 04:49:47 AM »
"Streptococcus salivarius subsp. thermophilus" and "Streptococcus thermophilus" are the same thing (ST).  The naming is inconsistent because they keep changing the names as they learn more about the bacteria.  Of course, probably different strains, but they should behave equivalently for an alpine cheese.  Obviously the MT1001 is lacking the Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris (LLC), but my guess is that it won't make that much difference in an alpine cheese.

In trying to figure out what flavour profile the LLC brings, I stumbled on this page: https://www.dairyconnection.com/cultures-1.html  It doesn't really help much, but I thought it was pretty interesting (especially the temperature ranges stated at the bottom).  The one thing I know about LLC is that it is present in sauerkraut and kimchi.  Papers I've looked at said that the enzymes in it are quite proficient at breaking down proteins into amino acids.  The other thing is that it's actually quite rare to find a commercial culture that has Lactococcus lactis (LL) without LLC.

I know that's not all that useful, but I suspect that it will make a very nice and interesting cheese that will be subtly, but not greatly different than the MA4000 series.  You can probably use it for anything you would use MA4000 with, but I'd be tempted to throw in just a tiny bit of another mesophilic culture with LLC if you are going to make a cheddar or a gouda.  Of course I'd try the MT1001 by itself first because it might be just fine.  With these farmhouse cultures, they are just trying to create a culture combination that approaches a famous composition in real life.  This one happens to be French, so if you were in that area of France using raw milk, this would be an approximation of what you would get.

It's kind of crappy to switch on you without giving you the option to cancel, though.  If it were me, I would have said OK, but that's not good if you were counting on something specific. 

Offline Bantams

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Re: Bioprox MT1001 - Similar to MA4001 and MA4002?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2020, 09:32:09 PM »
We make a Tomme-style cheese very similar to the recipe you'll be using. We switched from MA4001 to MT1001 about a year ago and definitely prefer the results.
I don't use PS in our recipe though.

Offline CaffeineFlo

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Re: Bioprox MT1001 - Similar to MA4001 and MA4002?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2020, 11:51:17 PM »
"Streptococcus salivarius subsp. thermophilus" and "Streptococcus thermophilus" are the same thing (ST).  The naming is inconsistent because they keep changing the names as they learn more about the bacteria.  Of course, probably different strains, but they should behave equivalently for an alpine cheese.  Obviously the MT1001 is lacking the Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris (LLC), but my guess is that it won't make that much difference in an alpine cheese.

In trying to figure out what flavour profile the LLC brings, I stumbled on this page: https://www.dairyconnection.com/cultures-1.html  It doesn't really help much, but I thought it was pretty interesting (especially the temperature ranges stated at the bottom).  The one thing I know about LLC is that it is present in sauerkraut and kimchi.  Papers I've looked at said that the enzymes in it are quite proficient at breaking down proteins into amino acids.  The other thing is that it's actually quite rare to find a commercial culture that has Lactococcus lactis (LL) without LLC.

I know that's not all that useful, but I suspect that it will make a very nice and interesting cheese that will be subtly, but not greatly different than the MA4000 series.  You can probably use it for anything you would use MA4000 with, but I'd be tempted to throw in just a tiny bit of another mesophilic culture with LLC if you are going to make a cheddar or a gouda.  Of course I'd try the MT1001 by itself first because it might be just fine.  With these farmhouse cultures, they are just trying to create a culture combination that approaches a famous composition in real life.  This one happens to be French, so if you were in that area of France using raw milk, this would be an approximation of what you would get.

It's kind of crappy to switch on you without giving you the option to cancel, though.  If it were me, I would have said OK, but that's not good if you were counting on something specific.


That's a great explanation! Thank you!
I much appreciated the insight into all of this. I just started cheesemaking and so all the info I can gather helps!

I didn't appreciate too much that my order was changed either. I ordered at this shop as the Danisco LR that I wanted for my Raclette cheese (the whole reason I started cheesemaking) was about $10 cheaper at this shop. Now guess what else was exchanged? Right, my Danisco LR B Linens were exchanged for BL403. When asked why this happened and also about the price difference (the BL were $5 cheaper), I was told that it'll end up being the same ...

I guess I won't order there again, on the other hand I felt like nobody is getting rich by selling cheese cultures to a small group of homemade cheesemakers ..