Author Topic: Acidifying too fast  (Read 588 times)

Offline dobster

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Acidifying too fast
« on: July 05, 2014, 01:45:17 PM »
I've been playing with (semi)lactic bloomy goat cheeses recently and taking Iratherfly's advice about putting the pH meter away (from a post several years ago).  My latest batch ripened at a higher than expected room temperature and had a nice curd set at 11 hours.  After ladling into a bag for pre-draining my curiosity got the best of me and I tested the pH of the whey which was 4.25.  I would have expected it to be around 4.5-ish

I've seen multiple comments about milk "acidifying too fast" and wondered how this would affect an aged, bloomy rind ash-coated cheese (valencay, st maure, etc)?

The high acidity has certainly made the pre-drained curds pretty sour tasting after an overnight hang (kind of flavorless, yet bitter). So I understand what it would do to a fresh chevre. But as more moisture is removed during drying and aging, what can I expect? 

Generally, does a longer ripening (eg taking 18-24hrs for the curd to set (or to get to a desired pH)) result in a more flavorful product than something that ripens faster? 

If I hadn't measured, I would have said the ripened curd was one of the best i've made, based on visuals and smell.  Pulling away from the sides, one crack, only 1/2 inch of whey on top.  Other batches tend to have more when floating on top, for example.  This curd may have felt a little more "solid" than others, but in the right general ballpark based on my experience.

I think I have a pretty clear picture on how to rectify the environmental problems for the next try (lower milk temp and/or less starter, draining part of the time in lower temp environment), but I'm going to put this one in my "cave" (wine fridge) and see what happens.  I'm still struggling with getting the humidty issues sorted out, so this is a good test subject.

Thanks!


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Offline dobster

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Re: Acidifying too fast
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2014, 02:52:06 PM »
Tried another experiment last night.  1gal goat milk heated to 72F, 1/8tsp MA4002. Ripened overnight (room temp was between 75-77F). 11-12 hours later there was a nice curd set, very slightly pulling from sides, 1/4-1/2" whey on top.  pH 4.36! I thought at those temperatures it would take at least 15+ hours to ripen.

Well, it's a step in the right direction.  I guess I still need to cut back on my Meso, or find a cooler room to ripen.

Still looking for advice on whether or not I should bother to age this or just eat it fresh.  Does ladling at that pH mean I'm doomed to a bitter cheese? (I'll be doing a bloomy rind....approx 14-21 days.


Offline Tomer1

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Re: Acidifying too fast
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2014, 07:50:49 AM »
Sure you can age them, They will likely be very tangy.

Longer ripening at lower temp means more buttery aromas. (more diacetyl produced). 77f sounds just perfect. use less culture, drain sooner.
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Offline dobster

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Re: Acidifying too fast
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2014, 11:36:32 PM »
Thanks for talking me off the ledge, Tomer.  I tried out one of the pH 4.36 (at time of ladling) cheeses, which was a geo-only ash-coated experiment (MA4001 and Geo17).  It actually turned out fairly well.  It was the most successful make yet for me, so I'm glad I didn't abandon it.  Not tangy at all. This one is still a bit young, but you can see in the photo there's a little bit of proteolysis forming around the rind. The outer bits near the rind are certainly the tastiest.  No bitterness. I've got two more I'm going to keep in the cave for another week and see what happens. This one was 21 days (but 7 of them were in a 40F fridge due to my being out of town and unable to tend to them). I need to figure out how to change the "cheeses" in my profile from 0 to 1.

The other cheese mentioned (the pH 4.25 at time of ladling) was an attempt at a Humboldt Fog style bloomy rind and that also turned out quite well (MA011, PC "SAM3", and a pinch of GEO17). It's still a little young but it had only a hint of that telltale tangy flavor in the center with more complexity near the rind where it's a bit softer. I was suprised at how much it actually resembled a young Humboldt Fog in flavor.  I don't have a pic of that yet.  I guess cheeses=2 on the profile.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 12:09:10 AM by dobster »

Offline awakephd

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Re: Acidifying too fast
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2014, 09:19:32 AM »
Dobster, the "cheeses" in your profile are not actually intended to be a count of how many cheeses you have made. Instead, they are given by others as a sign of approval for your efforts -- often signalled by "a cheese for you" or AC4U. You give cheeses by clicking on the "thumbs up" link just below the person's name.

And so, in approval of your foray into cheeses ... AC4U!


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Offline dobster

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Re: Acidifying too fast
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2014, 12:03:40 AM »
Thanks for the "cheese" Awakephd! I finally photographed the Humboldt Fog experiment.  It turned out well, although I need to go easier on the ash.

Offline dobster

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Re: Acidifying too fast
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2014, 07:27:26 PM »
...Rind is also a little thick. Too much ego maybe...or the wrong kind. I only have geo 17 currently.

Offline awakephd

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Re: Acidifying too fast
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2014, 07:10:29 AM »
Umm... too much ego? :) I suspect you meant too much geo. Auto correct strikes again? :)

In any case, it still looks good to me!

Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: Acidifying too fast
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2014, 09:20:17 PM »
A cheese for a wonderful cheese - to me I like a little more rind - its a bit more in the mouth.  Thats just me.

Well Done.

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Offline dobster

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Re: Acidifying too fast
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2014, 03:47:41 PM »
Too much geo usually causes less ego  :)


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Offline John@PC

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Re: Acidifying too fast
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2014, 06:58:50 AM »
Looks perfect to me Dobster and another cheese for you.   I've got to try this because I've got a hugh "lifetime supply" bottle of ash I need to use up and I love the look and "ego friendly" surface :).