Author Topic: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental  (Read 930 times)

Offline H-K-J

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H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« on: March 30, 2014, 05:05:09 PM »
Well it has been 54 weeks since I made my last attempt at an Emmental, so lets try this again.
I went back through all of the lessons learned and all the advice from Alpkäserei, His recipe is here on the forum, and made some adjustments, so we will see what happens.
I pressed with more than 8-lb's per lb. of cheese just to see if I could get rid of the mechanical holes that I had in the last one maybe I can get some swelling this time.
the curd knit was great on the first light press, then went up to 16 lbs. per lb. in the rest of the flip and dress.
I also added more P-S this time, all the cook temp's and times were hit, it went well so, it is in the brine then a week to 10 days in the cool room then out to 70 to 75 degree room for 3 to 4 weeks then into the ageing fridge for??? (I am almost out of Swiss :()
And for you photo freak's here yuh go 8)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 01:56:11 PM by H-K-J »
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Offline H-K-J

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Re: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2014, 06:49:18 PM »
After a 16 hour brine all seems well nice and pliable rind.
it has been drying for 2 days now, it will be brought out this weekend to a much warmer temp and hopefully swelling in 3 to 5 days after that.
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Offline JeffHamm

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Re: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2014, 08:50:47 PM »
Fingers and toes are crossed.  It looks good at this stage at least.

- Jeff
The wise do not always start out on the right path, but they do know when to change course.

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2014, 09:07:01 AM »
"Freaks" is such a harsh word, "voyeurs" is so much nicer!  LOL  Good luck buddy!  Hope it blows up for you this time! :o

Offline H-K-J

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Re: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2014, 11:42:38 AM »
This has been in the warm room for 2 week's, it hasn't blown up more like little ladyfinger firecrackers :(
Little bumps all over it, a week or so then off to the ageing room.
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Offline Bear and Bunny cheese

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Re: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 12:13:48 PM »
Hi H-K-J,
  I`ve been following all your attempts at swelling Alpines while trying to do the same myself (I`m on attempt number 5).  Watching acidity, salt and heat.  It just doesn`t seem to go for me either.  I`ve been told that cheeses need to be really big for this to happen but I`ve also seen some pretty dramatic eye formation with small cheeses from others on this board.  Keeping salt content under 2% with short brining like 6 hours per pound or even less, and keeping acidity at 5.4 before brining is all the info I`ve found to promote the Propionics.  All I can say is I feel your frustration.  Good luck bro.
Nathan

Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2014, 10:05:00 AM »
2 suggestions:

First, maybe you should only have gone to 10 to 12 pounds per pound of cheese. With the uneven swelling, overpressing is a possibility. There is a very tight range of ideal pressure. My own experience has shown, you need to have the ratio higher for smaller cheeses.

What is the form factor of this cheese? Is it at least 4 inches thick? If not, adjust your next make so your cheese is 4 to 6 inches thick. This will help your pressing ratios to work better at knitting your cheese, and also will give you a more proper thickness for ripening

Try keeping it in the press a little shorter time,
try brining it for a shorter time.

Basically, brining the cheese will put a stop to acidification by ST, so if you brine it quicker you will have a higher pH, that is a more hospitable environment.
Also you could add water to the cheese to raise the pH. They do this is Switzerland.
I really suspect your problem lies with acidity, so these are 2 ways to solve that problem.
With Emmentaler, you add the water after the curd has brewed, before cooking, same temp as the curd is before cooking. It's only purpose is to sweeten the cheese. you could add like 20% water.

Then if that doesn't work, your problem is salt. The solution there is to brine it less.

With such a small cheese, minute adjustments do a lot. But you are a good test subject, we can find a reliable means of making this cheese!

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Offline H-K-J

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Re: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2014, 02:26:55 PM »
thanks Alp
baby steps, I had thought about doing 10 or 11 lbs now I know the upper range not to try.
After the cooking phase I remembered the adding the water part to late.
well just another not right attempt but it is an attempt 8) hopefully it will be an edible attempt ^-^
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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2014, 10:02:37 PM »
I think your biggest thing is to check your form factor. The pressing ratios won't work right, if the surface of the cheese is too large compared to the overall mass. If your cheese is too 'flat' for its size, it is very very hard to get it to press well. It is generally harder to press a small cheese anyway. This is one reason why Emmentaler is made in 150 kg wheels!

You could still add water after the cooking phase. It would't do as much, but it should still sweeten the curd?

Be consoled by the fact that Swiss Emmentaler is not a standardized procedure, but a fairly broad range of acceptable practices. So there is no 'perfect' make. Or that is, a 'perfect' emmentaler is broad.

It should be edible. It should be good. Unless of course your blooming is yeast and not PS :/

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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2014, 04:10:45 PM »
I just noticed something,

3 to 4 weeks in the warm room?
Emmentaler AOC stipulates 30 to 70 days in the 'Gärkeller' which is roughly 5 to 10 weeks
You didn't even come close to meeting AOC specs  ;)
common is 7 to 8 weeks

You just need to give your cheeses more time!

Here for the record is a breakdown of the whole procedure for Emmentaler:
35 to 45 minutes coagulation
up to 20 hours in the press
24 to 72 hours in the brine (these are 150 kg cheeses) the brine is not saturated.
30 to 70 days in 'Gärkeller' at 19 - 24 C, 70 - 90% RH
Then aged for a minimum of 4 months (total age)

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Offline H-K-J

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Re: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2014, 09:44:27 AM »
Thanks Alp, it is still in the warm room. AOC? ain't nothin AOC about this thing, it looks like a fan belt pulley :(
I would put pictures up but they won't up load, I bought a new digital SLR cammera, I am still figuring it out.
I think the pix size is to large :P
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Offline H-K-J

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Re: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2014, 02:32:46 PM »
OK I must have been trying to large of a file.
AOC I think not even close
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 02:38:02 PM by H-K-J »
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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2014, 11:02:38 AM »
What are the dimensions of this cheese?
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Offline H-K-J

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Re: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2014, 11:05:56 AM »
Hi Alp, this is almost 8 inches diameter and maybe 2 1/4 tall.
It was closer to 3 inches tall when it came out of the press.
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Offline Alpkäserei

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Re: H-K-J's 4th attempt at an Emmental
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2014, 04:04:50 PM »
OK I am trying to understand what is happening to the sides

did you not keep them wet?

Also your cheese should be thicker! like start at 4 or 4.5"
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