Bitter Brie

[Brie 4 me]

Hi there,
I'm a COMPLETE novice. I'm good at yoghurt and OK at mozzarella so I've decided to try to make some brie as I love eating it  My first attempt ( and only so far) has been a failure with the  cheese being VERY bitter. 
I've followed the 'recipe ' on cheesemaking .com and also using Rikki Carrolls book. I used supermarket milk as new as on the shelf as I have no access to fresh (it's pastuerised and homogenised). I used CaCl2 as per the recipe as it was not 'fresh milk' and rennet and culture as per the "back of the packet" corrected for the liters of milk I used (4L).
I think I understand from searching the forum that the 2 most likely reasons for the bitterness are :-
1. too wet curd
2. aging in plastic box not correct temp.
I didn't cut the curd as the recipe said not too and it said the leave the drained unmoulded cheese at approx 68-74F (20-23c) for "a day or 2 till there is no free moisture on the surface". I didn't leave it 2 days but it was no longer leaking any whey at all.
I put it in a plastic 'cake box', the same brand (Decor) that is sold by a cheese supply place here in Aus. I also drilled some  holes in the rack. I thought my 'fruit' fridge (small bar fridge for storing all the xs fruit I grow) would be too cold @ 4-5C so I put it in the coldest place in the house here in winter - the built in cupboard which is about 12-14C.
My question is what is more likely to cause the bitterness?
1. Should I cut the curd?
2. Leave the cheese out for a few days? My kitchen is not as warm as 20C in the  winter!
3.Should I age at a colder temp in the fridge?
Thanks in advance for any help!

[Alison]

Hi Brie 4 me

If you renamed it Saint-Marcellin it would probably taste better (apologies to the Saint-Marcellin makers). That's what I did when I made white mould cheeses out of pressed yogurt (before I had access to rennet)....

Not removing enough whey (wet curd) definitely adds bitterness. I've found that making the a white mould cheese from raw milk produces less bitterness than p/h milk - just as sour raw milk is less offensive than sour p/h milk (pity you do not have access). That being said, up your culture addition by 10% so that your culture bugs get to express more (nice) flavours, maybe try some alternative cultures?

I can't answer your questions definitively but
1) Yes try cut (large blocks)
2/3) IMHO the damage is probably already done, so leaving it out or in the fridge may not really help. Avoid excessive temperatures leading to slipskin/frogskin.

regards
Alison

[jwalker]

Unless I missed it , you didn't say how long you aged it.

Unripe Brie can be very bitter , perhaps it's just not ready yet ?

Just a guess , but I've tried some that were not quite ready and they were bitter , another few weeks and they were good.

More info on your aging regimen , how long in cave , how long in cold fridge ?

Did the PC grow like it should have ?

Did the outer layer soften from the PC ?

[murmur]

Hi there,
I'm a COMPLETE novice. I'm good at yoghurt and OK at mozzarella so I've decided to try to make some brie as I love eating it  My first attempt ( and only so far) has been a failure with the  cheese being VERY bitter. 
I've followed the 'recipe ' on cheesemaking .com and also using Rikki Carrolls book. I used supermarket milk as new as on the shelf as I have no access to fresh (it's pastuerised and homogenised). I used CaCl2 as per the recipe as it was not 'fresh milk' and rennet and culture as per the "back of the packet" corrected for the liters of milk I used (4L).
I think I understand from searching the forum that the 2 most likely reasons for the bitterness are :-
1. too wet curd
2. aging in plastic box not correct temp.
I didn't cut the curd as the recipe said not too and it said the leave the drained unmoulded cheese at approx 68-74F (20-23c) for "a day or 2 till there is no free moisture on the surface". I didn't leave it 2 days but it was no longer leaking any whey at all.
I put it in a plastic 'cake box', the same brand (Decor) that is sold by a cheese supply place here in Aus. I also drilled some  holes in the rack. I thought my 'fruit' fridge (small bar fridge for storing all the xs fruit I grow) would be too cold @ 4-5C so I put it in the coldest place in the house here in winter - the built in cupboard which is about 12-14C.
My question is what is more likely to cause the bitterness?
1. Should I cut the curd?
2. Leave the cheese out for a few days? My kitchen is not as warm as 20C in the  winter!
3.Should I age at a colder temp in the fridge?
Thanks in advance for any help!

Try the Petit Brie Recipe from Rikki's book. It is a lactic set with a small amount of rennet. I am wondering if your rennet amount is causing bitterness.

[Brie 4 me]

Thanks for your replies.
Jwalker - I tried some after 3 weeks in it's box at 12-14C. The penicillin was growing on it in little cultures blobs not not covering it completely at all. No other mould (I think) and no skin slipping. It's 4 weeks now and still in its box in the cupboard, not the fridge.
There is a cheese sold here called nuage blanc which I REALLY like. It  seems to me that it is a really unripe brie /cam as it is quite solid on the center with a 'holey' texture. I am trying to replicate this, hence the trying after 3 weeks.
As well as a  too wet curd (R carrolls book doesn't say anything about leaving drain for a day or two like cheesemaking .com) and too warm 'cave', I also think I've erred with not turning it  (and so opening the box) every day.
Will try the petit brie. The rennet  amount I used was as per the bottle. No problems there with accuracy as I use a 1ml syringe to measure the amount.

[Andrew Marshallsay]

HI Brie
The following are my make notes from my last Camembert/Brie, 2 weeks ago. The recipe is compiled from several sources but has (mostly) been successful. It makes 2 cheeses of 9cm diam. and 3.5 cm thick.
   - 3L of pasteurised, un-homogenised Jersey milk, brought to 32C.
  - Cultures sprinkled on top (3/16 tsp of Epicurean MM100 + 3/32 tsp PC) and left for 2 minutes before stirring in.
  - Left to ripen for 45 min.
  - 0.9 ml Calcium chloride, dissolved in approx 20 ml of water, stirred in and then left for a further 5 min.
  - 1.0 ml of rennet (140IMCU animal rennet) dissolved in approx 20 ml of water and stirred in.
  - Flocculation time was 9 minutes. Multiplication factor of 5 gave a coagulation time of 45 min.
  - Cut curd to 25 mm cubes and rested 5 min.
  - Stirred gently for 10 min and then rested another 5.
  - Curds transferred to cloth lined moulds. Left ot drain under own weight for 24 hours, flipping at 15 min, 30 min, 1 hr, 2 hr, 3hr, 4hr, 6hr, 11hr and 24hr. As it has been pretty cold recently, I put them in a box with a container of warm water. The temp. started at 24C and dropped to 18C by the end.
  - Unmoulded and weighed the cheeses (240 and 250g). Rubbed 1/2 tsp dry salt into one side of each cheese, left them for 1/2 hr, flipped them and rubbed a further 1/2 tsp salt per cheese into the other side.
  - Transferred the cheese into a ripening box, on a rack, with the lid cracked to prevent the humidity from getting too high. Stored at 13C for 2 weeks, turning twice daily. Removed excess liquid from the box as necessary.
  - Wrapped in cellophane and transferred to the fridge at about 3C.
I am expecting to leave these for another 4-5 weeks by which time they will be well ripened. They will probably be quite good, although still mostly firm in about 2 weeks. (I'm a fan of the Nuage Blanc too and find them a great cheese right through from fresh and firm to well-ripened and soft.) 
The photograph was taken yesterday at wrapping.

[Brie 4 me]

Thanks Andrew,
Looks like you buy supplies from Country Brewer ?  I'd really like to find a source of something lovely like Jersey milk - but I'd prob drink it, not make it into cheesI'll try your recipe next time - can't give up with out getting it right!!
If anyone knows of a source of decent /fresh / real (not too costly) milk in the northern part of Sydney I'd like to know please.

[Andrew Marshallsay]

I but some from Country Brewer. They seem to be the only outfit with animal rennet in this part of the world. I have also bought from cheesemaking.com.au and have been happy with both. We must be just lucky here in Adelaide with Jersey milk readily available in the supermarket but I only use it for some cheeses. Good luck with your next make.

[Geodyne]

I've also bought from cheesemaking.com.au and been happy with the service.

I thought I'd point out that cheeselinks are selling animal rennet. They were advertising that they were only doing so for a limited time, but that warning seems to have disappeared from their site.

[Andrew Marshallsay]

Thanks Geo. That's handy to know.