Author Topic: About Cantal  (Read 6589 times)

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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About Cantal
« on: September 12, 2014, 10:30:17 AM »
A Cantal is looking like my next venture and I have been researching information. The main point of difference between recipes has been whether to salt the curd before the resting period or after.
In my search I found the following information in an article titled: In depth dynamic characterisation of French
PDO Cantal cheese made from raw milk
(De Freitas et al; Source: http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/89/56/45/PDF/hal-00895645.pdf )  I thought that it may be of interest to other members of the Fellowship of the Cheese.
“2.1. Cheesemaking process and samples
The samples were obtained from three Cantal productions manufactured in the same industrial plant between May and July 2004 through a process using 12 000 L of bulk raw milk per vat with addition of proprietary commercial lactic starters (F-DVS DCC-260 and CHN19 of Chr. Hansen, Arpajon, France) in order to get an inoculum of 105 cfu•mL–1. Standardized milks (protein: fat = 0.94) were heated to 31 °C before addition of rennet (33 mL•100 L–1) resulting in coagulation after around 20 min. After another six min after, curd cutting took place until wheat-sized curd grains were obtained. The mixture of curd and whey was then transferred to a “pre-pressing” vat in which whey drainage and mechanic pressing (about 3500 kg•m2) took place for 20 min at room temperature. The “prepressed” curd was cut in 2 kg pieces and placed in 50 kg moulds in which curd was turned and pressed four to six times in pressure cycles of 15 min with an increase from 3200 kg•m2 to 3800 kg•m2. Then, the pressed curd was cut in 15 kg pieces and matured for 14 h at 19 °C in order to obtain the “tome”. This tome was milled, mixed with 2.0% dry salt at 17 °C, moulded and pressed for 48 h (pressure was increased from 8500 kg•m2 to 18 000 kg•m2). After removal from the moulds, cheeses were ripened at 10 °C, 95% relative humidity.”
I did some conversion on the pressures given and came up with the following:
3200 kg•m2 = 4.6 PSI
3500 kg•m2 = 5.0 PSI
3800 kg•m2 = 5.4 PSI
8500 kg•m2 = 12.1 PSI
18000 kg•m2 = 25.6 PSI
While this article resolved for me the question of when to salt, there were a couple of things which made me think:
1.   There is no mention of ripening time. I would probably refer to other sources for that.
2.   Some of the pressures mentioned are truly scary. I know that Cantal requires high pressures but …
That got me thinking. I had assumed that, although larger moulds need more force in the press, pressure would be the same no matter what size the mould. Perhaps not. Perhaps the large commercial moulds referred to here need higher pressures than the moulds used by a hobby cheesemaker like me. Interesting stuff and I don’t know the answer but I don’t think I’ll be trying for 25.6 PSI at home.
- Andrew

Offline Boofer

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Re: About Cantal
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2014, 01:37:20 PM »
Using pulleys it is achievable to deliver well beyond that 25.6 psi. On a 7.375 inch Tomme mould, I could theoretically press with 40.6 psi, using 75 pounds and four pulleys. That's around 1700 pounds on the cheese. :o

The expected problem would be that the plastic mould would fail long before that was reached. If it were a stainless steel mould, that target might be reachable.

My spreadsheet has gone through several iterations since it first appeared in this thread. The current version addresses all of the moulds I use.

I have not made a Cantal yet. The heaviest pressing I have done was with my Double Gloucester: 13.7 psi.

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Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: About Cantal
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2014, 12:04:39 AM »
HI Boofer

I'm sure that you can achieve just about any pressure with enough pulleys and that press of yours looks heavy duty enough to go a long way. What I'm wondering is how much pressure do you really need? (..and, as you pointed out, how much will the mould take?)
I note, in this thread (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,11094.msg85113.html#msg85113) that Sailor Con Queso uses only 6 PSI for Cantal. I know that I can get 8 out of my press, and probably more. You never really know without testing to destruction.
I've done a couple of Double Gloucesters and according to my notes (not totally reliable) not gone over about 4 PSI, with only 1.5 on the latest.
I thint that with the Cantal I will just play it by ear and see how much pressure I need to get a good knit.
- Andrew

Offline Boofer

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Re: About Cantal
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2014, 05:31:45 AM »
I'd be inclined to follow Sailor's lead since he is in it commercially.

Also, the Double Gloucester I did, although pretty tasty, was on the dry side. Probably because most of the moisture/whey was driven out. I would probably go lighter on the pressing if I repeated.

Most of the cheeses I do now are pressed with less pressure. Cantal would probably require more pressure because of the process it undergoes.

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Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: About Cantal
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2014, 08:16:06 AM »
Thanks for the advice Boofer. It's the tips I pick up from people like you, Sailor and the other knowledgable contributers to this forum that makes it such a valuable resource.
I'll post my notes in a couple of weeks when I get around to making it.
- Andrew

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: About Cantal
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2014, 03:24:28 AM »
I've just taken my first cantal out of the mould. Below are the make notes:

Milk: 8l Fleurieu pasteurised, non-homogenised. P = 3.3%, F = 3.8%
Cultures: R7 mesophilic, ¾ recommended dose (3/40 tsp); Italian & Swiss mesophilic, ¼ recommended dose (1/10   tsp)
Calcium Chloride: 2.5 ml dissolved in 50 ml of water
Rennet: 2.0 ml animal rennet (140 IMCU) dissolved in 40 ml of water
Heated milk to 31oC
Stirred in culture for 2 min.
Allowed to sit for 20 min.
Stirred in CaCl2 and allowed to sit another 10 min.
Stirred in rennet.
Allowed to stand and checked for flocculation - 9½ min. Use a multiplier if 3.5x to calculate coagulation time of 33 min. After 33 min the curd was very soft so I left it until 45 min.
Cut to 6-10 mm
Stirred 20 min and allow to settle 5 min.
Transferred to cloth lined colander and drained for 20 min.
Unwrapped, cut into 2 cm thick slices and returned to lined mould.
Pressed for 4-6 periods of 15 min under increasing pressure, turning each 15 min:
15 min @ 0.4 PSI
15 min @ 0.8 PSI
15 min @ 1.1 PSI
15 min @ 1.5 PSI
15 min @ 1.8 PSI
15 min @ 2.2 PSI
Removed from press and left in mould for 16½ hrs.
Milled into small pieces and mixed in salt to 2%.   (1206 g of curd – I used 4½ tsp of salt –just over 2% to allow for some loss)
Pressed for 2-3 days, turning at intervals and increasing pressure.
6 hrs @ 1.1 PSI
8 hrs @ 4.8 PSI
13 hrs @ 6.4 PSI
24 hrs @ 6.4 PSI
Cloth removed and returned to press for 3 hrs @ 1.6 PSI
Final weight 860g

The plan now is to allow it to dry for a few days before moving it to the cave to develop a natural rind.
- Andrew

Offline Boofer

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Re: About Cantal
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2014, 01:16:43 PM »
Very impressive, Andrew. Nice clear make detail.

That curd cutter device is unusual. I can imagine, but how does it work and is it effective?

Good looking cheese. Seems like you got it to knit nicely. Have a cheese for your efforts.

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Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: About Cantal
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2014, 12:47:30 AM »
Thanks, Boofer.
The idea came from here: http://cheesemakinghelp.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/making-horizontal-curd-cutter.html
The only real change I made is the addition of the wooden bar which fits across the stockpot.
I made mine from scrap aluminium and wood and an old windscreen wiper blade stiffener.
I still use a knife for the vertical cuts and then this cutter for those tricky horizontal cuts. You adjust the level of the blade by sliding it up and down and make the cuts by turning the handle.
I was very happy with its performance. It was much quicker and easier than making angle cuts with the knife and, more importantly, gave a much more even curd size.
- Andrew

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: About Cantal
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2014, 10:40:08 AM »
About 5 weeks on and worth an update just on account of the lovely covering of colourful wild flowers.
The dark red ones were unexpected but they contrast nicely with the whites, blues and pale sulfur yellow (which unfortunately doesn't show up well in the photo.)
- Andrew

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: About Cantal
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2015, 09:28:15 AM »
A progress report on this project:
The cheese has been kept at a temperature of approx. 13C and a high relative humidity of around 90-95%. This has encouraged a diverse flora and a slightly slimy feel. I decided a week or two back to reduce the humidity. One of the results of this was that a couple of minor surface cracks opened up. Because of this and because humidity in this part of the world is hard to control at this time of year (51% in the cheese cave yesterday) I decided to wax.
This was duly done and now I just wait. I'm not sure how long to keep it but I think I can be patient for a while yet.
I'm not sure what the red patches are and I would be interested if anyone can enlighten me. My own guess would be a variant of B. Linens or something similar.
- Andrew

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Re: About Cantal
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2015, 01:18:39 PM »
I've just taken my first cantal out of the mould. Below are the make notes:

Cultures: R7 mesophilic, ¾ recommended dose (3/40 tsp); Italian & Swiss mesophilic, ¼ recommended dose (1/10   tsp)

How on earth do you measure 3/40 of a teaspoon?

Jon

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Re: About Cantal
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2015, 10:46:32 PM »
I think that should say 3/4 of a tspoon......... :-\

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: About Cantal
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2015, 06:57:07 AM »
How on earth do you measure 3/40 of a teaspoon?


I have a set of miniature measuring spoons and during 2014 the question of the accuracy of these things came up. I have checked mine and recorded their (rather curious) actual values. Three of the "smidgen" spoons would be 3/44 tsp, near enough to 3/40 for me. If you want more on this, the thread is here: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,12990.msg100626.html#msg100626

I think that should say 3/4 of a tspoon......... :-\

No Kid, it is 3/40 but I can see why you would think that must be wrong.
- Andrew

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: About Cantal
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2015, 12:09:35 AM »
The time finally came yesterday to open this one after 11 months.
The results are very pleasing. A very tasty, sharp cheddar-style cheese but with an unusual but nice acidic note. (A little reminiscent of salt and vinegar chips and similarly more-ish.)
I don't know if this is typical of Cantal as it's not a cheese I've had before.
- Andrew

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Re: About Cantal
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2015, 02:03:43 AM »
I have not had one either but it really looks good.  Great colours :)  and a cheese for your patience.  I'm smacking myself for opening my cheddar too early - I wasn't disappointed but I'm reminiscing on what the 12 month wait produced last time.  Lesson learnt I have 7 cheddars all one month apart and the that the next one will be way way better in 3 months - just ready for Christmas.

Well Done :)

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