Author Topic: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name  (Read 7721 times)

Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2014, 02:47:08 AM »
I'm thinking the there isn't a Trappist Monk to be seen where this is made
http://www.cheese.com/saint-paulin/

I know it's a washed curd  - but rind as well ?

So went to the Wiki University -
Quote
Saint Paulin is a creamy, mild, semi-soft French cheese made from pasteurized cow's milk, originally made by Trappist monks. It is a buttery cheese, but firm enough for slicing. Saint Paulin is similar to Havarti and Esrom, and is suited to serving as a table or dessert cheese; it is often served with fruit and light wine. Genuine Saint Paulin has an edible yellow-orange rind. It is ripened in a round loaf with slightly protruding sides, and matures in about four weeks


and from Britannica
Quote
...cheese first made by Trappist monks on the west coast of France in the mid-1800s. The name later became the registered trademark of the Société Anonyme des Fermiers Réunis for Saint-Paulin, a generic cheese type similar to the original Port Salut, with a mild, savoury flavour and a smooth, semisoft texture.


Not getting any closer here

Ok... DairyGoodness

Quote
Saint-Paulin
From the family of cheeses created by trappist monks, here is a cheese with irresistible charm that is similar to Noyan. Milder than Oka, it literally melts in your mouth.


Yep - well have no Idea what the other two are either :)

and then I find this -  Thanks Google for chasing out the romantic notion of how this was made - don't read it's depressing  >:( reduced to it's industrial components sort of tarnishes the image. - Sorry just me raging at the world in general.

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Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2014, 02:50:18 AM »
I think the edges were darker they were noticably firmer after removing from the brine. The first shot is without a flash. Going by the descriptions, maybe the little belly it is developing is really how it should be - wahoo !!

Thanks for the Cheese  :)

-- Mal
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Savu

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Re: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2014, 06:03:09 AM »
You might be interested in what Jim Wallace has to say @ Cheesesemaking.com go to the recipe section.
Here's the bit about washed rind, most other St. Paulin recipes I've got add b.linens to the milk, then brine wash with b.linens

"The 'Trappist' style cheese is one with a semi-soft body and is usually ripened with a washed or smeared rind resulting in a yellow to orange rind. Unfortunately, the commercial versions today are made with an orange dye sprayed onto the surface at the end of the ripening process.

The traditional ripening is due to a series of light brine washes which selects for a specific bacteria (coriniforms including B.linens) that naturally produces a rather colorful surface and is actually responsible for producing enzymes that cause the cheese to ripen to the center producing a very soft and aromatic cheese.
This cheese process is somewhat similar to the more "aromatic" cheeses, such as Limburger, but is much milder due to a more restrained ripening.

The most notable factors in making this cheese are:
the series of light salt brine washes,which are very important in setting the stage for the special enzyme production which slowly moves towards the center of the cheese.
the high moisture of the cheese body, which will allow these enzymes to move quickly.
a high humidity in the aging space to keep the cheese surface from drying out.
As the process of ripening progresses, the enzymes begin to break the proteins into smaller and smaller components, thus reducing the acidity and developing flavor in the cheese. As ripening continues, this moves deeper and deeper into the cheese until the entire interior of the cheese has been ripened."
http://www.cheesemaking.com/PortSalut.html

Stinky

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Re: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2015, 02:54:38 AM »
Did this get ate?

Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2015, 03:01:53 AM »
it is being consumed at the moment - I'm not really enamoured with it.  It's tasty enough but has an almost vinegar after taste.  I think I didn't press it enough and it soured a bit too much. If I had to toss up between this or a Caephilly then the Caerphilly would win hands down.  I dont think I'll remake this one just yet.  I will have to do a bit more reading and hopefully find a solution.

-- Mal
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Kern

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Re: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2015, 05:11:34 AM »
it is being consumed at the moment - I'm not really enamoured with it.  It's tasty enough but has an almost vinegar after taste.  I think I didn't press it enough and it soured a bit too much. If I had to toss up between this or a Caephilly then the Caerphilly would win hands down.  I dont think I'll remake this one just yet.  I will have to do a bit more reading and hopefully find a solution.

I'm glad I caught up with this thread as I was preparing to make this same recipe tomorrow!  Caldwell mentions that this is the recipe for Pholia Farm's Takelma (a St. Paulin-style cheese).  She has a nice picture of it on page 248 in her book.  It does not look like a rind-softened cheese as the paste is quite uniform from the rind to the center.  In the recipe on page 261 she mentions aging it for 2-3 months or more.  Looks like you went out for six months, which may be over the hill for a cheese of this type.   :-\

Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2015, 06:34:40 AM »
I think as well that vac packing this style of cheese tends to make it a bit sour. I feel that there is too much whey still left in the cheese. Subjecting it to such a low pressure during pack drawers out the whey and it pools in the bag and goes sour.  Air dried natural rind would suit these better than Vac Pack , waxing or even cloth bandaging.

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Kern

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Re: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2015, 02:53:54 PM »
I think as well that vac packing this style of cheese tends to make it a bit sour. I feel that there is too much whey still left in the cheese. Subjecting it to such a low pressure during pack drawers out the whey and it pools in the bag and goes sour.  Air dried natural rind would suit these better than Vac Pack , waxing or even cloth bandaging.

I think that yours is an excellent point.   It goes to the aging under aerobic versus anaerobic argument.  That is, is oxygen available to the cheese during the aging process?  In a complete oxidation process acetic acid breaks down to carbon dioxide and water.  It can't do this without oxygen and vacuum packing excludes oxygen.  So, any acetic acid that is generated by the breakdown of proteins accumulates and you get a vinegar taste from the acetic acid present.  It doesn't take much acetic acid to taste like vinegar.   A)

Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2015, 04:05:08 AM »
Master Kern... Thank you for the wonderful explanation and a Cheese for you.  The VacPac work well on cut aged cheeses to extend out their life - not so with this type and now I know why :)  Many Thanks

-- Mal
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Kern

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Re: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2015, 05:37:29 PM »
Master Kern... Thank you for the wonderful explanation and a Cheese for you.  The VacPac work well on cut aged cheeses to extend out their life - not so with this type and now I know why :)  Many Thanks

Thank you for the cheese.  I had another idea that might help you out.  Essentially it is this:  Vacuum pack your cheeses if you like but every week or two remove the cheese and let it sit in the cave for a couple of days and then re-vacuum it.  This gives the cheese a chance to "re-oxygenate" without exposing it to excessive drying out or mold.  Prior to repacking it I'd do a quick wipe down with a weak salt/vinegar solution, pat the water off and let it air dry in the cave for an hour.  This should remove any mold spores.

Having said all this let me add that it is just an idea I had.  I've never tried it but have a 1 kg cheese currently vacuum packed that I'll try this on starting in a week. 

One of the reasons I quickly jumped to minimum 4 gallon batches is to try and tip the surface area to volume ratio more in my favor.  Rather than a round pot I use a steam tray vat (rectangular) and an electric griddle to heat this along with a device from Perfect Cheese to keep things under control.  I just got an 8 gallon vat that will fit the griddle so I'll be upping the batch size to seven gallons as soon as I do some "dry" runs with water to make sure I've got a large enough griddle.  This vat will be too big to move around once filled so whey will be removed by siphoning.  I found that in a water rinsed recipe made yesterday that using a regular large kitchen sieve was a great way to push the curds out of the way (whey?) to remove clear whey.  (Taking awhey the way, so to speak.   :o

John@PC

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Re: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2015, 11:57:40 PM »
Vacuum pack your cheeses if you like but every week or two remove the cheese and let it sit in the cave for a couple of days and then re-vacuum it.  This gives the cheese a chance to "re-oxygenate" without exposing it to excessive drying out or mold.  Prior to repacking it I'd do a quick wipe down with a weak salt/vinegar solution, pat the water off and let it air dry in the cave for an hour.  This should remove any mold spores.
Kern I think your on to something.   I have a Vacmaster but if you use your method of periodically removing the cheese from the bag I would recommend this.  A few cents more per bag but in the long run will save money and WAY cheaper than a Vacmaster.  Also you can reuse the bags and control the amount of vacuum so you don't "wrinkle" your young pliable cheeses.  Note that gallon bags are needed for 2lbs up to 5+ lbs cheeses.  Also good for sous vide and freezing. 

Offline scasnerkay

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Re: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2015, 03:26:04 AM »
Just a note on this particular recipe in Caldwells book. I have made it a few times now. Aging from 2 months to 4 months. Great each time. But I did a natural rind and did not wash the rind. The cheese does seem rather moist and soft initially, and it takes a awhile to form a nice rind. I have 3 similar ones in the pipeline now, with 3 different rennets as an experiment. The make is slightly different based on make sheet that Gianaclis brought to the class I recently took.
Susan

qdog1955

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Re: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2015, 10:46:03 AM »
Kern ---where did you find a eight gallon vat?
Qdog

Kern

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Re: Same Temp - Light brine Washed - Needs a name
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2015, 03:25:18 PM »
Technically it is an 8-inch full size steam table pan.  I got it on the Katom website (https://www.katom.com/cat/polar-ware-steam-table-pans-covers.html).  The brand name of the vat is Polarware (www.polarware.com).  It actually holds seven gallons to the rim.  I use it for six gallons of milk leaving about 1.5 inches to the rim.  Its base is slightly smaller than a 6-inch steam table pan so it fits on a Presto griddle.  You'll get far better heating with a 1/4-inch aluminum plate on top of the griddle and folder aluminum foil shims between the slightly curved griddle and the aluminum plate.