Author Topic: Coagulation, Rennet - No Clean Break > Semi-Lactic Coagulation  (Read 1783 times)

Offline Nick

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Hi everyone,

Hopefully this is posted in the correct forum if not, apologies.

I really am only interested in making cheddar types cheeses right now.

I have made a few semi - successful cheeses but I seem to be having the same problems, that is, my milk takes hours to coagulate. Also its always too soft after its cut.

I am using store bought milk with a fat content of 12%.  I am adding Leeners Calcium Chloride to it and Chymosin & Anilmal Rennet.

Once the curd is cut and I bring slowly up tp 100 degrees Fahrenheit, it looks OK, but as soon as I try to stir it even very gently it start to disintegrate into yogurt. And when I try to strain away the whey it further collapses. I end up with yogurt and end up scrapping it, which is not only disheartening, but its a waste of money.

I have experimented with adding more Calcium Chloride and more rennet but mostly its the same results.

I have manged to find a goat farm close to home and wondering will I get better results with raw goats milk?



 
 


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Offline Wayne Harris

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet - No Clean Break > Semi-Lactic Coagulation
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2009, 06:06:07 AM »
A couple things.
 
I always use whole milk for cheddar.  That is about 3.7% fat.  Not sure how you get to 12%
How much CaCl2 are you adding?
How much Animal rennet do you add, and how do you add it?
 
I get a good set for cheddar in about 45 min. 
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Offline mako

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet - No Clean Break > Semi-Lactic Coagulation
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2009, 10:29:50 AM »
You make no mention of what sort of culture you are using. When I first started out, I used storebought buttermilk as my acidifying culture, and I believe that it was simply too weak, and did not sufficiently colonize the milk in a reasonable time, leading to a fragile curd that broke apart when I attempted to stir it.

I do not know if this is your problem, but my experience sounds very close to yours.

Offline Nick

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet - No Clean Break > Semi-Lactic Coagulation
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2009, 11:22:06 AM »
You make no mention of what sort of culture you are using. When I first started out, I used storebought buttermilk as my acidifying culture, and I believe that it was simply too weak, and did not sufficiently colonize the milk in a reasonable time, leading to a fragile curd that broke apart when I attempted to stir it.

I do not know if this is your problem, but my experience sounds very close to yours.

Hi, I am using mesophilic starter from Danisco.

Also the fat content is from the ingredients from the milk label.

I choose this particular brand because it had an higher fat ratio, other brands were lower at 9%.

There is one brand here that sells high fat milk of 17%. I tried this but with the same results unfortunately.

Offline Wayne Harris

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet - No Clean Break > Semi-Lactic Coagulation
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2009, 11:37:13 AM »
From Wikipedia:
   

 
Butterfat contentU.S. terminology
80%Butter
40%Manufacturers cream
36%Heavy whipping cream
30 – 36%Whipping cream or Light whipping cream
25%Medium cream
18 – 30%Light, coffee, or table cream
10.5 – 18%Half and half
3.25%Whole milk
about 2%2% or Reduced fat [6]
1.5 – 1.8%Semi-skimmed
about 1%1% or Low fat [6]
0.5 – 0.0%Nonfat or Skim or Skimmed [6]
 

   
This is from Wiki.
 
My thoughts:
From that chart, it sounds like you using 'half and half', not milk.  and from that perspective, there is a whole lot more milk protien that would need to set.
 
Given the increased amount of cassien protein per unit of liquid volume, I wonder if more rennet is required to give it a good "set".
 
Since this is about 3.5 times the normal amount of fat, I wonder what would happen if you added 3.5 times the amount of rennet.
 
(One key to rennet addition that I have found to be important is to ensure that you dilute the rennet about 10-15 times with room temperature distilled water.)

 
 
 
 
 
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Offline Rich

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet - No Clean Break > Semi-Lactic Coagulation
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2009, 06:43:14 PM »
Just a thought:  if you really are using whole milk and not half and half, could you possibly be missing the clean break stage and allowing your curd to go too far, therefore disintegrating?  At what point do you check initially for a clean break?

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet - No Clean Break > Semi-Lactic Coagulation
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2009, 08:30:43 PM »
Another thing to check is if you are using ultra-pasteurized milk because this will not get a solid set. Make sure it says only 'pasteurized' on the label.

Offline thebelgianpanda

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet - No Clean Break > Semi-Lactic Coagulation
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2009, 10:39:01 PM »
No, he's not using half and half, he's simply reading the label on the milk carton.  I just grabbed a 2% gallon of milk and the nutrition facts say 8% and 16% for total/saturated fat.  The higher number that the poster is using is the percent daily amount of fat per 2,000 calorie diet that is on the label.

If you're not getting a clean break in 45 minutes either you are using ultra pasteurized milk or your rennet is no good.

Offline kai

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet - No Clean Break > Semi-Lactic Coagulation
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2009, 11:15:15 PM »
Nick, Can you give me a brand of your milk.
Cause in the label is Nutrition ingridient for THai RDI. not a % of fat.
Whole milk has 3.5% as Wayne said.
In Southeast  asia basicly grass has a low quality then others so milk fat content always has a problem. Milk company have to add butter and other such as flavor excepted Thai-denmark, Jutlada(royal project)and Nong phoe.
You can ask Thai people read for you if ingridient is
Nom Ko = นมโค = cow milk = milk power dilute with water
Nom ko sod tae = นมโคสดแท้ = real whole milk.

Try and try.


Offline thebelgianpanda

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet - No Clean Break > Semi-Lactic Coagulation
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2009, 11:47:23 PM »
All I know is where I am (US/Oregon) even low fat milk like skim will set in 45 minutes as long as it isn't seriously processed.  It won't taste good, but it sets.  I know that in some countries such as India it is very common to boil all milk*, and if that is the case where you are (at the processing plant) that may be the source of your problems.


*This is anecdotal from several engineers I have worked with.


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Offline Nick

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet - No Clean Break > Semi-Lactic Coagulation
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2009, 10:19:02 PM »
Thanks everyone for all your advise. You are probably correct about the mistake I am making reading the label. I can't read Thai at all, (my spoken Thai language isn't that red-hot either)

I am using CP Meiji, and I tried CP's high fat with the same result. I will try Chock Chai soon.

However, now you have given me the telephone number to the Thai dairy CO OP. I will pay them a visit and fingers crossed, I may have Raw milk.

What brand do you use Kai?

Offline thebelgianpanda

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet - No Clean Break > Semi-Lactic Coagulation
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2009, 10:34:39 PM »
Hey Nick, would it be possible for you to take a photo of the jug of milk you are using?  I'll bet with the diversity of wonderful people here we could figure out what's going on.  Or if you just get raw milk then I'll bet that'll solve your problems.  Anyway, best of luck!

Offline kai

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet - No Clean Break > Semi-Lactic Coagulation
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2009, 10:04:41 AM »
I use a raw goat milk,never try with cow milk.
You know, everytime you homogenise it(have to heat to 65 c), a fat globule will destroy.It's not good with your coronary artery.

Nick, What are you doing in Chonburi?