Using a 26 gallon beer brewing kettle to make cheese.

[Sweet Leaves Farm]

Here's the induction stock pot range: http://www.katom.com/084-MSP7000200.html
If I only had $3,300.
And at 7,000 watts, I do believe my rural electric co-op would be calling, asking all sorts of questions!

All the other electric burners have a limit of 10 gallons ,or less.

[pastpawn]

Paul, I think you mean Blichmann.  http://www.blichmannengineering.com/

Jennifer, you might consider an electrical forum of heating.  There are no noxious vapors to deal with, and with some simple process instruments you can accurately control the temperatures.  E.g., I use my brewing system to cook with (sous vide).  And, you won't run out of electricity the way one might find themselves with an empty tank of propane.

Whoops, missed your post Andrew when I posted the above.  Blichmann, yep, sorry.

Do you know of any electrical solution that would adequately handle a 100 qt vat (preferably without having to rig 240V)?

It's gonna be tough to get the power you need at 120V.  If 240V isn't available, then gas might be the only solution. 

A few years ago I stuck a logging temp probe in my boiler.  It was open top, uninsulated.  10 gallons, 5500W element.  If you can't read the scales (try clicking on pic), it shows the temp rising from about 70F to 212 in 45 minutes.

You can probably extrapolate what less power or larger quantities will look like.  SLOW. 

[John@PC]

Jennifer, you might consider an electrical forum of heating.  There are no noxious vapors to deal with, and with some simple process instruments you can accurately control the temperatures. 

I was thinking that too Andrew for cooking curds but I believe she needs rapid heating for pasturization and I don't know if electric can match a burner in that category.  I'm going to run the calcs. but first I need to grab a brewsky to "sharpen the pencil" so to speak .

And thanks Jennifer.  Based on reviewing posts on the forum it's the best pH meter for the money.

[pastpawn]

Jennifer, you might consider an electrical forum of heating.  There are no noxious vapors to deal with, and with some simple process instruments you can accurately control the temperatures. 

I was thinking that too Andrew for cooking curds but I believe she needs rapid heating for pasturization and I don't know if electric can match a burner in that category.  I'm going to run the calcs. but first I need to grab a brewsky to "sharpen the pencil" so to speak .

And thanks Jennifer.  Based on reviewing posts on the forum it's the best pH meter for the money.

I didn't realize this was for pasteurization.  That's the problem with speed reading. 

[John@PC]

Problem:  Jennifer needs to increase 26 gal. milk (216 lbs) 100 deg using a 70,000 BTU gas burner.  How long will it take?

Assuming burner efficiency of 50%:
   216 lbs x 100 deg F = 21,600 BTU required
   70,000 burner BTU x .50 / 21,600 = 1.6 hrs.

What would be time if using 5,500 watt heating element?
   5,500 watt = 1611.5 BTU/hr
   21,600 BTU (required)  / 1611.5 BTU/hr = 13.4 hr.

Second calculation seems to long to me even assuming 100% efficiency.  Thus it may take a second brewsky to validate .  Cheers Andrew!

[smolt1]

The second one seems to long to me too, since my 40 gal 5500kw water heater goes from cold to hot in about 20 min. I think I'll have a glass of wine.

[John@PC]

The second one seems to long to me too, since my 40 gal 5500kw water heater goes from cold to hot in about 20 min. I think I'll have a glass of wine.

Good point, but 5500kw would be 5,500,000 watts right?  I know what you mean though and hopefully someone out there that's more sober than us can help us out. 

[smolt1]

That was only off by a factor of 1000. Where is a physics major when you need one?

[Sweet Leaves Farm]

You guys are too funny! My husband is a physics major, and I got a raised eyebrow when I read him the 5500kW. There has got to be a way to heat the milk gradually to 140 degrees, without scorching it, that doesn't cost more than my truck!

[ArnaudForestier]

...someone out there that's more sober than us can help us out.

I have a ^&%$#@ squirrel that has taken up taunting me in the room adjoining my cheese cave.  He or she's smarter than me.  It's coming to C4, or a 10-gauge.  I'm drinking just to salve my ego. 

[John@PC]

Found my error . 2nd option for a 5,500 watt heating element should have been:

   5,500 watt = 18,771 BTU/hr
   21,600 BTU (required)  / 18.771 BTU/hr = 1.15 hr to heat 26 gal. 100 deg.

Assume 75% efficiency time would be pretty close to the 70,000 BTU gas burner.  This jives better with the "hot water heater" comments.

There has got to be a way to heat the milk gradually to 140 degrees, without scorching it, that doesn't cost more than my truck!

Assuming you want "clean" heat (no vent required) and you can extend pasteurization time you should look at this band heater and picture below.  110v, 1,700 watt and should fit your kettle bottom.  A nice thing about this one is it's got a variable-cycle heater that adjusts the on-off duty cycle which would really help control heat rise time when cooking curds (much better than a thermostatic control).  Brand name is "Wrap-it Heat" and I saw it on several websites but McMaster had the best price I saw.

Hot water heaters are well insulated and have internal elements so to get maximum efficiency you would need to have some kind of insulation wrap esp. if it's cold out there.  Assuming you do and you get 50% efficiency the time  would look like this:

(21,600 BTU (required)  / 5,972 BTU/hr) x .50 = 7.2 hr to heat 26 gal. 100 deg.

Even if you needed 2 it still would be cheaper than your truck unless it's like the one below .

[Sweet Leaves Farm]

John, did you mean this one? http://www.mcmaster.com/#3552k74/=uwjx11
$300 is a great price, but I don't think they are adjustable, size wise? They go from 18 1/2" to 22 1/2" All the pots I have looked at are 20" wide. Could you tell if the heater uses a spring clamp ( like a springform cheesecake pan) or something that is adjustable?
 I also worry that the thinner walls of the pot (1.2 MM) versus the thicker bottom (5.6MM) would let the milk scorch on the sides, where the band is, or would it make a convection current?
You definitely couldn't use a circular stirring motion, you would have to stir from the bottom to make sure you mixed in the milk from the center.

[qdog1955]

 Has anyone considered running the milk through a smaller diameter coil or pipe----either gravity fed or pumped-----and just heat the pipe? Ni-chrome wire is readily available to make any heating element you want. Just a thought.
Qdog

[John@PC]

I found the website for the wrap-it heaters: http://expoengineered.com/Expo_Engineered_Heaters/SRX.html

EXPO ENGINEERED Model SRX-30 Drum Heater is designed for heating materials that are subject to coking, burning or chemical separation, such as food, chocolate, honey, light oils, chemical and undercoating materials, etc. Model SRX-30 does NOT have a thermostat and therefore will not AUTOMATICALLY reach and maintain a given temperature. However, the INFINITE control allows the operator to CLOSELY control the heater OUTPUT within a given range of HIGH, MEDIUM or LOW. The three heat switch allows three wattage ratings per control setting and voltage rating: HIGH, Maximum Watts; MEDIUM, 1/2 Maximum Watts and LOW, 1/4 Maximum Watts. Equipped with spring loaded toggle clamp for snug fit, 6 foot power cord and high ampere three pin plug.  For 120V operation, use bell NEMA 5-20 Outlet.  FOR INDOOR USE ONLY.

I sent an email to their sales dept. asking the adjustment range and if they have any advice for your application.  Based on my experience with using an 1,750W electric griddle with rectangular pans up to 6 gal. I don't think you would have a problem with scorching as the band has a pretty large heating area with low watt-density.  Hopefully Expo can shed some more light.

Qdog, isn't this similar to how milk is commercially pasturized?  Only problem is that when cooking the curds may not be too happy being "pumped and pushed around" .

[qdog1955]

 John----I think your correct on pasteurizing---  what I'm suggesting is, it is much easier to heat small volume quickly to what ever temperature you want and then hold that temp. in the large vat that you are making your cheese. The simplest way ----would be to use two brew vats---one set higher then the other ----gravity lets the milk run through the heated tube into the cheese vat---think of a still, only instead of cooling through the tubing, your heating. The heat surrounding the tubing is easily controlled and so is the rate of flow through the tubing. The cheese vat can then be kept at temp. by various means rather easily. Since you mentioned it---it seems to me, it would also make a decent pasteurizer---up the temp. in the tubes to that required (145 ?) and hold for the half hour required in the cheese vat
 Well you know me John---always over-thinking
Qdog