Raw milk / Bath Milk

[TimT]

It's all the leftover whey that's really the problem! It goes acidic quickly, and you can't drink it all... good for stock and use in breads, though. And where can you find room in the fridge for all of that?

I'd been hoping to do this experiment for months, and store all the whey so I could use it all to make a ricotta or a mysost. Mysost sounds great fun: you basically boil whey for hours and hours until there's so little water that the sugars (lactose and galactose, mostly) start to caramelise. You end up with a brown fudgy spread, perfect for toast in the mornings.... But alas, I didn't have any time.  Most of it went on the garden or, I'm ashamed to admit, down the drain.

[shaneb]

Our dog is on a special renal failure diet. We need to make up his food. It has soaked rolled oats and soft cheese in it. I've been soaking the oats in whey and have been making whey ricotta which I also use in his food. It is a bit less waste that way and does save a few cents.

The mysost does sound interesting. I was reading about it a while ago. I think it's supposed to be made from goats milk isn't it?

Shane

[TimT]

Dunno, I think in my book of cheese recipes by Rikki Carroll it's just included as a whey cheese. Aside from the different amounts of lactose/galactose in different types of milk I think one would be pretty much as good as another.

Whey's great, I like to have a cup of it when I'm cheesemaking. What with the strange green colour and the fact that it's still swimming with those microbial beasties I feel a little like Dr Jekyll downing another bubbling beaker of a magical fluid. But it's very rich, I can never have too much - I think it's the concentration of lactose and the acidity.

[shaneb]

Yeah, you are right. In Rikki Carroll's book it definitely says cow milk whey. The goat milk variant is geitost.

Shane

[awakephd]

Shane, here is a link to a one-day Lancashire: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6505.msg46408.html#msg46408. Previous discussion concluded that this produces the "creamy Lancashire" variety. It is a favorite of mine -- matures in 5-6 weeks and very tasty.

[shaneb]

Thanks for the suggestion. I might give it a go soon. One thing I'm finding to be a problem is the salt level in some of the cheeses I've made so far. My Caerphilly was particularly salty to a point where I don't wish to eat it s and my first brie was also. I followed the recipe correctly, but am not sure whether the salt came from the recipe or occasional brine washes to keep mould at bay. Do you find the Lancashire recipe salty? I've made a cheddar a few weeks ago and put half of the amount of salt due to this. Not sure how it will taste yet as it has quite a few months to go. I'm not a huge fan of high levels of salt.

Thanks.

Shane

[OzzieCheese]

Shane,  just wondering on how much you are using.

My Caerphilly was particularly salty to a point where I don't wish to eat it s and my first brie was also.

I use for 10 litre makes of Caerphilly only two table spoons and hand rub a little salt over the cheese during pressing and I don't Brine either of the Caerphilly or my Malemberts.

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,12893.0.html

I use the following pressing and hand salting routine:

Pressing and Dressing procedure
1.   Press for 10 minutes @ 10 lbs.  Remove from the mould rub salt in the top, bottom and sides  - redress .
2.    Press again with @10 lbs. for 10 minutes. Repeat the salting as well.
3.   Repeat and re-press @ 15 lbs. for 20 minutes.  Repeat the salting as well.
4.   Unmould re-salt and redress and press again @ 25 lbs. for 16 hours.  On the press I am using .75kg @ 60cm and 1.5kg @ 70 cm which gives me 8Kg at the cheese and 2kg @ 80 for 25lbs

-- Mal

[shaneb]

Hi Mal,

Thanks for that. I followed the Greening of Gavin page for Caerphilly. His recipe came from Making Artisan Cheese by Tim Smith. I used 9L of milk with two tablespoons of salt mixed in the broken up drained curds. I added no further salt apart from dabbing mould on the surface. I was swapping between brine and vinegar for that. Maybe it was this that imparted the salt. I subsequently gave up on the mould and just vacuum sealed the other half of the cheese. I'll get back to natural rinds once I sort out my humidity control issues.

I suspect with the first brie the problem was that the cheese height was not high enough, so the rind to paste ratio was a little high. That problem has been resolved since that batch. I never got to try the second batch, so I can only judge it's success by all of the people from my work wanting to order cheese from me. 

Today I've placed an order with cheeselinks for some starter cultures, mould spores and hoops + baskets. I'm looking forward to getting them. I have ordered a couple of open bottomed brie hoops, so I'll get to do an 8L batch next time. The same mess for more cheese. Yay! 

So, I take it from your pressing routine you never actually add salt directly to the curds. I've been doing the external salting already on the brie batches. Would that work for the Lancashire also? I might give that a go if it's the case.

This week will be feta, so I'll need to consider what will come after that. My cave is starting to get a little fuller. I have a full-size double cream brie, three camembert sized double cream brie, half a Caerphilly, a small blue and an Oompa Loompa coloured cheddar in there. I bought some more ripening containers today for more cheese.

Have a good weekend all.

Shane

[OzzieCheese]

Hi Shane,

For the Caerphilly - Just to clarify I do add 2 Table spoons of salt during the milling and then hand salt at each re-wrapping during pressing - nothing else.  And actually the salting on the outside will help set up the rind and control the mould and I actually let the white wild  'Geo' go free on the surface, and I hardly bother wiping them down. If you get a nice knit on the rind during pressing then the rest of the maturing goes pretty well.

I wish I could give classes on the final work of maturing the cheese.  I'd try and write a blog but there is nothing quite like doing it and feeling it.. I can give all the explanations under the sun but until you feel the salt and cheese in your hands and how it looks and smells it really is hard imparting that... Smellavision and tactile learning .. oh I wish.

-- Mal 

[shaneb]

Thanks for the clarification Mal. I think I must be overly sensitive to salt then. I'll adjust for my taste then. I think the knit of my first Caerphilly was not perfect. I did have some pitting and I got the occasional green spots of mould in there. I'll try again with half the amount of salt when I get my new hard cheese mould. My present handmade mould is not ideal.

Your classes sound like a great idea. Whereabouts are you in Australia? I think there are a few small cheese manufacturers on the Mornington peninsula that run courses.

How do you manage humidity in your cave for Caerphilly with a natural rind? I'm concerned that it will dry out too much in mine. I've got two ultrasonic foggers at the base of mine, but they are doing a rubbish job. The highest I'm getting at the moment is 40%RH @ 12°C. I don't know whether I should put the Caerphilly in a ripening box or try and get the whole cave humidity up.

Any suggestions? I'm trying a bowl of saturated salt solution at the moment to see if that does anything.

Thanks for your help.

Shane

[ArnaudForestier]

Sorry to jump in, Shane, but you're only getting 40% with 2 UHs?  Do you have pics? 

Not sure whether John ships internationally, but if you look up John@PC's stuff, he makes some really nice humidifiers, digitally controlled, that worked beautifully in my smaller caves, converted from refrigerators.  He also makes an outstanding fogger for larger applications - I have one now, in my pilot cave, about 220 c.f.  Performing brilliantly.  Anyway, very much worth considering, IMO. 

[awakephd]

Shane, two tbsp salt in 9 liters sounds a bit on the high side. If I recall correctly, I use 2-1/3 tbsp for 3 gallons (~12 liters) - not a lot less, but enough to be significant. I would recommend backing down the salt a bit more gently than cutting in half - salt is a necessary part of the development of the cheese, not just a flavor agent. And the difference of a tsp or two can be dramatic in the saltiness of the final product. For example, 3 tbsp in my Caerphilly is painfully salty; 2-1/3 is superb.

[shaneb]

Jump right in Paul.   Thanks for your advice. Yeah, I agree the humidity level doesn't seem right. I have put another humidity sensor (the indoor display of a weather station)  and it is actually reporting 70-75%. That is a bit more like it. So there must be something wrong with the sensor on my humidity controller. I have another sensor I planned on using for logging, so I will set it up and see if I can get some agreement between two of the sensors. Maybe things aren't as bad as I thought. I will check out John@PC's posts.

Awakephd - Thanks for your advice. I never considered what the cheese may need with the salt content. It is a good point. I guess I'll scale it back a less aggressive. I'm sure I'll find a balance. I'll just have to keep making them until I get it right. 

All the beer best.

Shane

[OzzieCheese]

Probably a bit off topic but...

Salt - an amazing substance.  It does something to our taste buds that helps bring the flavour out in the food it is mixed with.  It's an amazing preservative - desiccant - Mould inhibiter (depending on the mould) . it also stops the further creation of lactic acid, it aids in the removal of whey from the curds. As far as cheese making goes it is essential.  BUT ......
Too little and it doesn't or cant do it's job and too much affects the taste, hardens up the texture and destroys the very cultures you are trying to protect and feed.  If you can get a copy - I bought mine from Kindle.  Mastering Artisan Cheese by Gianaclis Caldwell where she goes in depth in explaining the role of salt. It also comes down to personal taste and why we choose to make cheese instead of just going to Woolies and buying their sad and sorry excuse for cheese - Coles is no better.  Sorry I'll stop ranting.

BTW my Stilton attempt was from this book as well..

-- Mal 

[shaneb]

Thanks for the explanation Mal. I'm learning something new everyday which is great. I don't have the Gianaclis Caldwell book yet. I have only have the Ricki Carroll one at this stage. I'll probably buy an electronic copy as you've done as it is much easier to cart my tablet around with me.

I have been doing some fault finding on my humidity problems. It turns out there must have been a bad contact in the crimped joiner I put between the controller and sensor. Unfortunately the controller isn't smart enough to detect a missing humidity sensor, only the temperature sensor. I have re-terminated it and I get reasonable agreement between the weather station, the logging sensor and the controller. I'm sitting around 65% at the moment, but fogger is doing a rubbish job at the moment. My makeshift float is not keeping the fogger at a good depth in the water. I'll have to resolve that and permanently mount my sensors in a good spot within the fridge. I'm glad it was as simple as that though.

Shane