Author Topic: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?  (Read 2958 times)

Offline cindybman

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Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« on: January 28, 2015, 05:13:18 PM »
Hi! Moo!

I'm new to cheese making and as I wait for supplies to arrive, I am reading as much as I can (I found this site from "Artisan Cheese Making at Home"). I am super lucky and have access to reputable raw milk.  So, of course, I want to use it! :) Every recipe I have calls for pasteurized milk.  Would I eliminate the calcium chloride and/or lipase that may be listed in the ingredients?  Decrease?  Or just let it be?

Thank you *so* much for any information or advice you may have!
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Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2015, 05:16:06 PM »
Drop the calcium chloride.  Milk loses that when pasteurized so raw milk still has it.
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Offline cindybman

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Re: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2015, 05:18:17 PM »
Thank you, Al!
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Offline Danbo

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Re: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2015, 06:52:19 PM »
Maybe it would also be a good idea to cut back on the amount of starter culture...

Take a look at this recipe from Peter Dixon: "... Double the amounts of starter culture for pasteurized milk...". By the way, I find Peter Dixon's recipes to be very good. http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/recipes_appenzeller.shtml

If you use cows milk and want a goaty sharper flavor, you could add lipase. I don't think that it is normal to add calf lipase to raw cows milk.

I have never used raw milk myself - I just remember reading that smaller amounts of starter is needed when using raw milk.

:-) Danbo

Offline Mermaid

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Re: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2015, 07:45:04 PM »
I use raw milk and use half the amount of starter culture called for in recipes with pasteurized milk. And omit the CaCl. Keep the lipase of you seek a piquant flavor.

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2015, 07:57:24 AM »
Lipase is normally added into Italian cheeses, parms, mozz, etc. 
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Offline WovenMeadows

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Re: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2015, 12:16:45 PM »
You might need less rennet too. I found when I had fresh rennet, the milk was coagulating much faster than the recipes said, when using the amount called for by the recipes or the rennet label. You would determine this by watching for the first signs of flocculation and noting the time it too.

Offline cindybman

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Re: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2015, 05:20:47 PM »
Al, Mermaid, Danbo, Woven,
Thank you for your advice! And for the recipe link.  You are awesome and this is going into my notebook!
All the best
“Never promise a mouse cheese on a Sunday cause by Friday night, it will be squeaking at your door.”
― Charmaine J Forde

Offline cindybman

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Re: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2015, 06:21:04 PM »
You might need less rennet too. I found when I had fresh rennet, the milk was coagulating much faster than the recipes said, when using the amount called for by the recipes or the rennet label. You would determine this by watching for the first signs of flocculation and noting the time it too.

WovenMeadows... you say "fresh rennet", does that mean you bought it fresh from the farm or is that also a name for liquid rennet.  I realize I must sound so stupid; but I am a 100% beginner.

Thank you so much!
“Never promise a mouse cheese on a Sunday cause by Friday night, it will be squeaking at your door.”
― Charmaine J Forde

Offline WovenMeadows

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Re: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2015, 09:43:25 PM »
You might need less rennet too. I found when I had fresh rennet, the milk was coagulating much faster than the recipes said, when using the amount called for by the recipes or the rennet label. You would determine this by watching for the first signs of flocculation and noting the time it too.

WovenMeadows... you say "fresh rennet", does that mean you bought it fresh from the farm or is that also a name for liquid rennet.  I realize I must sound so stupid; but I am a 100% beginner.

Thank you so much!
Oh, I meant bought (in my case liquid rennet) - not straight from the animal stomach! It can lose its strength/potency over time, so if you have, say, a bottle of rennet that's been opened for 6 mos, it may not be as effective as it was when first opened. I have a couple small bottles going on two years now, left from a pack of 12 I once bought, and whereas at first I found I only needed to use a scant 3/4 tsp per 4 gallon pot, now I need about a full tsp for the same coagulating effect.

Offline cindybman

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Re: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2015, 09:49:44 PM »
Thank you for the clarification. :)  I thought, "Wow! I'll get raw milk *and* fresh rennet from the farm!"  Can you imagine if I had asked the seller for "fresh" rennet?  I'd be asked to never return.

I had heard that rennet can become less effective over time.... anywhere from 6mos to 1 year.  I'm relieved to know that I may not have to necessarily throw it away.  When you add the rennet and realize it's not doing its thing, are you able to add more at that time or do you just have to scrap/make due with the current product?

Am I hijacking my own post? If so, I apologize.  I have been on some forums with super strict rules...
“Never promise a mouse cheese on a Sunday cause by Friday night, it will be squeaking at your door.”
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Offline WovenMeadows

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Re: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2015, 11:08:25 AM »
No, you wouldn't want to add more, as stirring would disrupt the coagulating process. I use the so-called "flocculation" method, where after adding rennet you start watching and timing until the milk begins to gel (either the spinning-bowl/lid method or dipping-knife method etc). Then once that happens you can figure out how much longer to allow the milk to set. So, for instance, whereby for a recipe the ideal flocculation point would have been at 12 minutes, it may have taken me 18 minutes once my rennet was getting older. So I just allowed the total time before cutting to be longer, and when making cheese the next time, I increased my rennet until the timing seemed more on the mark. Conversely, when I first started making cheese with the new rennet, I was getting flocculation at, say, 8 minutes, so it was rather quick. I think you'll wind up with fairly the same strength of curd either way, if you are careful to use the timing method - but there would be differences, such as a longer-than-called-for coagulating time leading also to more acid production in that interval.

Offline cindybman

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Re: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2015, 01:49:03 PM »
WovenMeadows,
Thank you!  You are helping me so much... I am making a notebook of everyone's advice.  "Flocculation" (with a full explanation) will be immediately submitted.
You rock and I appreciate your help. 
“Never promise a mouse cheese on a Sunday cause by Friday night, it will be squeaking at your door.”
― Charmaine J Forde

Offline Danbo

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Re: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2015, 04:27:11 PM »
There is a short video (and explanation) regarding flocculation: http://curd-nerd.com/flocculation-method/

:-) Danbo

Offline cindybman

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Re: Alter Recipe When Using Raw Milk?
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2015, 10:40:49 PM »
Danbo, may I say, "You Rock" also? Thank you!
“Never promise a mouse cheese on a Sunday cause by Friday night, it will be squeaking at your door.”
― Charmaine J Forde