Author Topic: starting in the buisness.  (Read 5292 times)

bill shaver

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starting in the buisness.
« on: February 13, 2015, 01:50:53 PM »
have some questions about getting stated in this.
 Currently employed in the federal govt here in usa, looking to retire in about 2 years, own my own farm at home, barn need revovation of course, have 140 acres tillable/pasture, looking to produce butter & cheese on my place, not trying to be big but very small, how small should i be looking at as far as how many cows, how much butter & cheese to produce, will be growing my own hay & grains. Am looking at Aryshires, Canadienne & jerseys. equipment have researched on line, but still looking.

Kern

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Re: starting in the buisness.
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2015, 01:07:16 AM »
Yours is a big, tough question.  A couple of us are looking at establishing an artisan cheese making operation in the area where I live.  since there are about ten dairies in the area we have no plans to raise cows.  Raw milk goes for around $ .20 per pound so a gallon costs about $1.75 and will produce 0.9 pounds of cheese.  Thus, the raw material cost will be about $2.00 per pound of cheese.  A mature cow produces about 25-30 pounds of milk per day.  Roughly speaking one cow is capable of yielding about 3 pounds of cheese per day. 

The challenge when building a cheese business is scale up as well as capitalization.  For example, if you have three cows you'll be processing about ten gallons of milk per day producing 9 pounds of cheese.  You'll not be able to sell any of this for about three months. So, your cave will contain about 800 pounds of cheese before any goes out the door.  This will take a pretty large cave.  Furthermore, you'll have to make the cheese in a facility and with equipment that is probably capable of a lot more cheese than this.  Furthermore, it will all have to be state approved.  You can begin to see the difficulties!

Here's our approach:

Like you, we are gathering all the information we can get INCLUDING snooping on local artisan cheese websites to see what sells.  We have begun to talk with the Dept of Agriculture to see what the requirements are.  We are getting them involved in the process right from the git-go.  We want the plans all approved before we stick a shovel into the earth or order a piece of equipment.  We're getting to know used equipment suppliers (storage tanks, pasteurizers, stirred vats, etc.).  We're not going to have cows so we're talking with local dairymen.  We're also visiting potential retail outfits about buying our cheese and importantly what they think they can sell.  As we do this we learn things we didn't know going into the process.  For example, today I learned today that many of our local dairies have contracts to sell their milk to a large local brand and that contract precludes them from dealing with us directly.  We've heard from a state inspector that the company processing all this milk will sell to artisan cheese makers but we don't yet know the particulars.  This information could be a game changer if the minimum quantities are too high and we can't secure a source.  We don't know anything yet about legal whey disposal.

Finally, we've purchased equipment to make and age cheese under tightly controlled conditions (for reproducibility).  This includes a 5-gallon rectangular vat with heat source and controller, pH meters, gram scale to +/- 0.01 grams, and a new upright freezer that we'll modify for both temperature and humidity control.  Before we make cheese commercially we want to be able to establish reproducible procedures.  We plan to sample our production to cheese lovers in the area for their input.

When we've got all this done we'll put our business/production plan together, get our preliminary approvals and secure financing.  Only then will we start to spend "the big money".

I hope this helps.

bill shaver

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Re: starting in the buisness.
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2015, 01:34:56 PM »
boy you've got a pickle there, thats why i'm looking my own cows, no more than i have to , to meet demand, and whey disposal, can sread on fields, also looking at butter as well, so equipment wise, cream seperator, 2 bulk tanks, chees vat, aging room & building everything seperate from the cow stable. .was considering being esasonal, milking 1/day...concentraing on the cows to improve blood line, ow stress environment for myself & cows. Cows on pasture all season as long as something is growing out in the fields, then indoors for wointer, generally where i'm located outside late march till late october. In the stable looking to put cows in box stalls vs stanchons, so they can be more comfortable....seen this before works well, milking via pail & step saver, feed ration, hay, pasture, minerals, earcorn hammermilled & blended with sprouted grains like barley, oats & peas...

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: starting in the buisness.
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2015, 04:41:45 PM »
Where are you at in King County Kern?  Raw milk out here on the Kitsap Peninsula is $7.00 a gallon. LOL
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Offline Tiarella

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Re: starting in the buisness.
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2015, 04:46:56 PM »
You guys are all brave and it's exciting to read about your plans/ideas.  I always bring to mind the quote in one of the books by Gianaclis Caldwell.....she's quoting someone else who says, "Cheese making is an income, not a living".  Locally a goat cheese dairy farm has closed it's doors.  The owners are in their 50s and had to both work part time jobs off-farm to make ends meet.  They just decided it wasn't worth it.  I think looking at every way you can add a % to your profit line it's important.  Choosing a breed of milk producer that has high solids can be the difference between making it or not.  Having family members involved or learning to make efficient use of interns, etc. can be important also.  Then there's the added income from farm stays, gift baskets, networking for high end customer sales, etc.  I think it's a great idea.....and I wish that cheese makers got the kind of corporate welfare that Shell and Exxon get.   ;D

Offline Tiarella

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Re: starting in the buisness.
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2015, 04:50:14 PM »
Just another thought.....the in things are grass/hay only milk (no grain fed) because it's much healthier and every Weston Price diet aficionado will want your products.  Grass fed butter is another big one.  Grass fed goat butter sells for even more.  Grass fed ghee (clarified butter) is very in demand and expensive.  In some areas organic milk sells high enough that it's easier to just sell milk rather than go to all the bother of making cheese.

Kern

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Re: starting in the buisness.
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2015, 08:15:30 PM »
Where are you at in King County Kern?  Raw milk out here on the Kitsap Peninsula is $7.00 a gallon. LOL

I'm near Enumclaw.  There is a retail raw milk seller near here who sells raw milk for $10.00/gallon.  He isn't big enough to supply a cheese making operation - sells milk, organic veggies, etc.  We're going to have to find a large farm source who can deal with us directly.  Dairygold has a lot of these guys locked up so we may have to go though them.  We'll see.  The nice thing about outsourcing a good supply is that you can turn it on or shut it off if you need to depending upon marketplace projections for the cheeses you produce.  If you've got your own cows you're stuck.

Kern

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Re: starting in the buisness.
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2015, 08:29:17 PM »
You guys are all brave and it's exciting to read about your plans/ideas.  I always bring to mind the quote in one of the books by Gianaclis Caldwell.....she's quoting someone else who says, "Cheese making is an income, not a living".

Fortunately, none involved in our project have to make a living from making cheese.  That's why we are mercilessly looking at the facts and putting together a business model.  Because of regulatory factors (at least in Washington State) you can't just dip your toe in the water and see if you like it.  It is go big or go home because of the minimum equipment and facilities one will have to procure to get a license. 

bill shaver

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Re: starting in the buisness.
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2015, 08:38:42 PM »
yes the grass fed thing...not much production, but whats in it/...different story, hence why the sprouts, a hrad thing to do actually,a  smold being problem , happens toall no matter how clean you get, but rather do it than silages., balges maby but mainly grass hay, pasture & a simple grain mix, oats, barley peas & roasted linseed....but the least stressfull time of day early am milking, 1/day if possible 7 looking at seasonal, taking it all in...from all, want to hear all the trials & tribulations...

John@PC

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Re: starting in the buisness.
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2015, 09:59:28 PM »
Hi Kern and welcome.  It is sad to hear how the smaller family dairies there are being squeezed then scarfed up by developers, conglomerates, etc.  Best of luck and please keep us advised as your endeavor progresses. ;)

Offline awakephd

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Re: starting in the buisness.
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2015, 08:20:50 PM »
.....and I wish that cheese makers got the kind of corporate welfare that Shell and Exxon get.   ;D

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bill shaver

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Re: starting in the buisness.
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2015, 12:10:52 PM »
what do most of you have for whey disposal, feed livestock & spread the rest, keeping it around in summer months brings on the flies...

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: starting in the buisness.
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2015, 04:10:24 PM »
Wouldn't cheese making come under the heading of "normal farm activities"?  If so you can save a ton on licenses and taxes.  I have a friend with about a 5 acre farm that just set up a cidery and avoided all county taxes/licenses under that rule.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 07:21:19 PM by Al Lewis »
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Kern

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Re: starting in the buisness.
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2015, 07:02:31 PM »
WOuldn't cheese making come under the heading of "normal farm activities"?  If so you can save a ton on licenses and taxes.  I have a friend with about a 5 acre farm that just set up a cidery and avoided all county taxes/licenses under that rule.

Last Friday I chatted with a dairy inspector from WA Dept of Agriculture.  My impression was that big or small all cheese produces here have to abide by the same rules.  Small producers might get away with being able to dump whey in a drain field or feed bad cheese batches to the pigs.  Farmstead cheese producers might have some relaxed requirements when it comes to cow inspections.  Equipment-wise it is my impression that the requirements are largely the same regardless of size.  The equipment is just smaller.  If I remember correctly a cheese license is only about $55 per year and worker's licenses are about $10 every two years.  Cheese is a manufactured product with a B&O tax rate of 0.484% of sales.  Farms may get away with lower property taxes if development rights are sold to the county.  And, of course, sales taxes must be collected where appropriate.  I don't see where all the savings are going to occur.

Even coming from the same farm cider and cheese are very different products.  Cider ferments and other than alcohol has little potential to harm.  Cheese can develop some deadly microbes.  Thus, the State has much more concern about cheese versus cider and this may account for looser (and less costly) regulations for cider.

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: starting in the buisness.
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2015, 07:23:14 PM »
Without the farm exemption my friend would have to pay for a county license and inspection as well as state.
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