am i crazy?

[the_stain]

OK, after batch #4 of carefully following directions, using good rennet and starter culture, etc, I'm starting to feel like I'm insane or doing something totally wrong.

No matter what I do, after cutting and cooking my curds, no matter how much they look like "cubes", as soon as I pour them into a colander to drain, they look like this:



A lot of websites and image searches turn up pictures of cheesemaking where the curds look like that.

OK, great, but whenever I've had "cheese curds" aka squeaky cheese from a cheese factory, restaurant, store, etc, they look totally different - much more like "hunks of cheese."  How the heck do I get my fresh curds to look like this:



The bottom photo, as you can see, looks more like "cheese" instead of what I keep ending up with, which basically looks more like cottage cheese.  Any ideas?

[Tea]

Unfortunatly it could be your milk.  Curds like that usually are from raw/fresh milk. 
There has been some experimentation here with the adding of cream and calcium, and slow heating to try and restore store bought milk, so do a search and see what you can find.

[the_stain]

Dang, not what I was hoping to hear.   I'm not about to start spending $12.50/gallon on raw milk!!

[chilipepper]

I agree with Tea. It can be sort of an art to get curds to remain intact after cutting and through the cooking phase.  Many of us found that a rest after cutting and sometimes after each set of directional cuts can promote better curd formation and shape retention.  Doesn't have to be long but 5 minutes or so. 

Also, how hot are you cooking/scalding these and how fast are you raising the temps?

Keep trying!  You'll get it figured out.

Ryan

[the_stain]

The batch last night, I tried a monterey-jack style recipe. I'm heating the milk verrrrry slowly (perhaps TOO slowly? it takes me longer than 30 minutes to reach the temps in the recipes that say it should take 30 minutes to reach.)  I heat it by filling the sink with water about 10 degrees above my target temp and sitting the stockpot in that.  I cooked them in this case to about 100F but I have tried as high as 116F without getting much additional firmness.

I've also noticed that, no matter if I follow a recipe for Cheddar, or Monterey Jack, or any other type of cheese, it always comes out tasting the same - very cottage cheese like.  I know that most of the flavor in cheese comes during the aging process but is this normal?

[chilipepper]

For me personally, I 'taste' my curd almost always to have a better handle on what is going on.  Particularly as a novice cheesemaker, I like to get the most data I can.  What I've found is that I rarely get a curd that squeaks when eaten until after it is cooked to somewhere around 124*.   This was most noted on my Parmesan recipes however the curd is very small too.  There were a couple of others but I'd have to go back to my recipes to find out for sure. 

The other thing to consider as well is maybe that the acidification will also have an effect on the curd texture.  If you look up recipes for traditional Cheddars or maybe even stirred curd cheddar (not farmhouse) and follow those you will get a tougher 'squeaky' curd as well.  My guess is this would be similar to what you would find in the store as 'cheese curds'.  I can't imagine the cheese producers would make something special. I would think they would just pull curd off of their cheddar line after salt but before they mold and press and sell it as fresh curd.

Just some thoughts for you to try!  Hope it helps!

Ryan

[the_stain]

For me personally, I 'taste' my curd almost always to have a better handle on what is going on.  Particularly as a novice cheesemaker, I like to get the most data I can.  What I've found is that I rarely get a curd that squeaks when eaten until after it is cooked to somewhere around 124*.   This was most noted on my Parmesan recipes however the curd is very small too.  There were a couple of others but I'd have to go back to my recipes to find out for sure. 

A question occurs to me on this one.  I've found that the temperature of the curd, if I stick the probe of my thermometer right into a cube, is a lot lower than that of the surrounding whey.  I should be measuring the temp of the curd, right?

The other thing to consider as well is maybe that the acidification will also have an effect on the curd texture.  If you look up recipes for traditional Cheddars or maybe even stirred curd cheddar (not farmhouse) and follow those you will get a tougher 'squeaky' curd as well.  My guess is this would be similar to what you would find in the store as 'cheese curds'.  I can't imagine the cheese producers would make something special. I would think they would just pull curd off of their cheddar line after salt but before they mold and press and sell it as fresh curd.

Yeah, that's what I've always thought it was, which is why I'm curious how they get these nice "chunks" of cheese, whereas I get.... well... mush.     The curds look like they'll hold their shape, but if I try to grab one in my fingers, boom, it turns to yogurty stuff.

[Rich]

If you want firm curd, try the cheddar recipe all the way through cheddaring - then cut into cubes.  It will be squeaky.  Or do a Haloumi - it has a very meatlike consistency.

[linuxboy]

I always measure just the whey, but I also heat slowly. My curd temp is usually about the same as the whey.

I know Beechers gets their milk from Green Acres Dairy in Duvall, and uses raw milk, so maybe it's the milk?

Have you tried a bit of calcium chloride?

[the_stain]

If you want firm curd, try the cheddar recipe all the way through cheddaring - then cut into cubes.  It will be squeaky.  Or do a Haloumi - it has a very meatlike consistency.

Do you have a link?  The only recipes I can find online (including the one here) seem to skip cheddaring in favor of a "stirring" step.

[chilipepper]

I typically measure only the whey after it seperates...I guess I figure if they whey is at a specific temp and the curd is/was all at the same temp before it seperated it should be holding the same.  However as you introduce temp to cook/scald then the center of the curd will certainly lag the whey temp.

I agree totally with Rich, follow the cheddar recipe ALL the way through the cheddaring process (will take a better part of a day) but you'll have what you are looking for!

Ryan

[linuxboy]

Have you seen Peter Dixon's recipe?

http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/recipes_cheddar.shtml

There are a few detailed logs here of the cheddaring process with timing and pH.

[the_stain]

I always measure just the whey, but I also heat slowly. My curd temp is usually about the same as the whey.

I know Beechers gets their milk from Green Acres Dairy in Duvall, and uses raw milk, so maybe it's the milk?

Have you tried a bit of calcium chloride?

Yeah, I've been adding about 1/2tsp per gallon of 30% CaCl2 solution. 

Funny thing is, when I do the 30-minute mozzarella, it comes out great... but obviously you're not looking for "solid curds" there...  but as I heat the curds in the microwave they firm up (until they become sticky and melty eventually).  So I'm leaning towards trying to cook the curds a little hotter and maybe speed up my process (so I actually reach the temp in 30 minutes) and see what happens.

I also used liquid vegetable rennet for the first time yesterday and the curds were "somewhat" firmer than when I've used Junket tablets in the past, so I'm going to try upping the amount of rennet next time and see what happens there too.

[the_stain]

Have you seen Peter Dixon's recipe?

http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/recipes_cheddar.shtml

There are a few detailed logs here of the cheddaring process with timing and pH.

Thanks.

Hopefully the recipe scales well, I'm only doing 1-gallon batches right now.

[linuxboy]

Be careful with adding too much veg rennet. When I've done that, I had bitter cheese and had to throw it away. Nowadays, I use a pipette with the bare minimum ml volume recommended by the manufacturer.