I need a cheese teacher.....

[Sarahal88]

So after the ominous cracking/bulging of my first pressed cheese (farmhouse cheddar), I was not dissuaded and decided to try again today with the same recipe out of Ricki Carrol's Home Cheesemaking.

This time, I sanitized everything and was extremely careful, but I ran into other kinds of problems.

I think I need some in-person help to master this. Does anyone know how I can find a class or a workshop in (or nearish to) my area? Or a cheese mentor in my area?

I'm just having problems doing things at the right time, getting the temperatures right, etc, and I feel like having someone walk me through it would make it a lot easier to see what I am doing wrong. 

I'm still going to press and age the mess I made today and see if it turns into cheese, but I cut the curd too soon, curds fell apart, not sure if they got hot enough or TOO hot - getting different thermometer readings in the pot. Sigh.

[Stinky]

Yeah, I was rather uncareful at the beginning. Really, getting to the point where you have things under control takes experience more than anything. But if you tell us some of the problems you had, perhaps we can help.

[Sarahal88]

Well,  as for my problems on this cheese:

1) I thought I had a clean break and was ready to cut the curd after the amount of time indicated in the recipe (45 minutes) but I left it just a bit longer just to be sure. The curd was very fragile and I realized after I started cutting that I should've waited  longer At this point, what can be done? Wait with the curd half cut? Is there any way to salvage things?

2) proceeding with my very fragile curd, I tried to warm from 90F to 100F no more than 2 degrees F per 5 minutes in my sink. I started with water in the sink and the curd pot both at 90. Then dumped hot water into the sink every 5 minutes or so, measuring the sink water as I wet along as well. Where should I measure the temp in the pot? I was getting wildly differet temp readings at different parts of the pot. In the whey at the bottom, very high, but in the curds at the top, not high enough. And my curds were so fragile I couldn't stir properly without shattering them. I eventually went on to drain and hang them (that's where I am now) but I honeslty don't know if I underheated or overheated them.

What happens if you make cheese out of curds that are mostly shattered?

Thanks for any help. I would still really like to take a class or something if anyone has any recommendations. Even within a few hours drive. I'm in western VA, so that means DC, Maryland, NC, WV etc.

[Kern]

There is a fellow in Australia who has a lot of cheese making videos on You tube.  His name is Gavin.  He has a blog at http://www.greeningofgavin.com/.  He also offers an e-book for about $10 with recipes and links to the videos.  He is an entertaining guy if not a little tedious.  But, you might be able to learn a lot by watching what he is doing and then go from there.  I'd suggest you try a simpler cheese until you get the hang of it.  Feta is a good learning cheese.  In the end nothing beats trial and error.

[Danbo]

I would be happy to help in any way that I can, but it's a long way from Denmark to Virginia... ;-)


Are you using pasteurised milk (and perhaps also homogenized)? Are you adding Calcium Chloride to the milk? Calcium Chloride strengthens the curd quite a bit.


:-) Danbo

[qdog1955]

The milk you are using could be part of the problem----make sure it's not ultra high pasteurized---unhomogenized will work better if you can get it. Try some different brands----some brands in a given area may work better----and be aware that some P/H milk will shatter and it's not your fault, it just happens----I have had success using those milks in Alpine cheese only because of the small curd required.
 Here is a link to A Gavin video for feta on Utube  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnvqtQV754E  from there he has a bunch of cheese videos.
Qdog

[Sarahal88]

The milk you are using could be part of the problem----make sure it's not ultra high pasteurized---unhomogenized will work better if you can get it. Try some different brands----some brands in a given area may work better----and be aware that some P/H milk will shatter and it's not your fault, it just happens----I have had success using those milks in Alpine cheese only because of the small curd required.
 Here is a link to A Gavin video for feta on Utube  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnvqtQV754E  from there he has a bunch of cheese videos.
Qdog

Thanks - blaming it on the milk is really appealing since then it isn't my fault . But the milk I used has been recommended to me as a good milk for cheese making. I have made mozzerella with it before pretty successfully.

However, it is homogenized and pasteurized (but not UP). So I did some looking and found this milk in my area: http://www.mtcrawfordcreamery.com/products.html

It is non-homogenized and low temp pasteurized (145F for 30 minutes). Think this milk would work for cheese making?

[Stinky]

It would work great.

[Kern]

Thanks - blaming it on the milk is really appealing since then it isn't my fault . But the milk I used has been recommended to me as a good milk for cheese making. I have made mozzerella with it before pretty successfully.

However, it is homogenized and pasteurized (but not UP). So I did some looking and found this milk in my area: http://www.mtcrawfordcreamery.com/products.html

It is non-homogenized and low temp pasteurized (145F for 30 minutes). Think this milk would work for cheese making?

This would be my first choice in milk.  I'd add some calcium chloride since it has been pasteurized.  Get the amount from the recipe you are using. 

[OzzieCheese]

Hi Sarah,  There are a wide range of people here and just as wide ranging experience.  But the first thing is don't panic ! .  Its just cheese...  Just looking at this entry and going back to basics and I've had the very same issues. So... Lets start.  And sorry if this sound simplistic - you have made cheese before but I think couple of things might help.
Temperature control
There is a thing call temperature inertial - same concept as physical inertia.  The tendency of a substance to stay the the same temperature until enough energy is applied to make it increase and the other is it requires something to happen to make it stop and in this case milk has a very different inertia that water. I know this might sound basic but if you remove the heat source instantly you stop adding energy and the temperature remains as is it and in a vacuum will stay the same temperature for a very long time.  But it never is really removed instantly. There is aways residual heat and therefore can increase past the point you remove it at.  How does this affect me making cheese ??
It has to do with the heating method.  Direct heat - straight on the hob and indirect heat - like a double boiler or sitting a smaller pot in a larger one. The direct heat is fast but scorches the milk if not careful and due to the lag in instruments can be difficult to stop exactly on the required Temperature - hence moves past the required temp.  Where indirect is slower but has more inertia, meaning the if you just measure the milk temperature and turn the heat off  - and you leave the pot in the water - it will, depending on the size move the milk temp 2-4 degrees past whenever you turned off the heat source.  Induction is the same though a lot less difference, it still occurs.

Milk quality: as you have already discovered is paramount - you can't make good cheese with bad milk .

Milk Handling: Pasteurisation will cause damage to the milk, no matter how they do it.  That said, LTLH (Low Temperature Long Hold) is the gentlest form and still be legally called pasteurised BTW the Mt Crawford milk sounds wonderful and they are using LTLH pasteurisation.

Calcium Chloride:  Any milk under gone any pasteurisation should have this added as it helps with curd formation - you don't need alot 1/8 teaspoon in 8-10 Litres (sorry I'm metric) = appox 2 Gallons.  It will help.  If you find raw milk supplier you can ommit this.

Cultures: find out what the culture temperature ranges work at they are all different: some only have a narrow band to work in for example my Meso stops at 38 Deg C but my Thermo doesn't really start until 32- 34 deg C.  This is important because cheese making doesn't happen without acid (Lactic Acid in this case)

Is this too simplistic ?? Not sure where you are at, because the 'Clean Break' is an important condition for the curd to reach.

-- Mal

[OzzieCheese]

So I'll keep going ....  There are several distinct steps and all cheese go though it - with a heap of variations.

Heat milk
Acidify the milk
Create Curd - Coagulate the milk
Drain
Form Cheese
Mature.

and all these really depend on what is the outcome you are after.

Do you have a cheese you want to start with - apart from Mozzarella, cos I havn't made enough to pass comment

[OzzieCheese]

Sorry I just saw that you were making Farmhouse Cheddar.  I have made that one a couple of times and is a pretty solid recipe.  I do however have a few problem with the components and unless you are using culture packes and rennet tablets from New England Cheesemaking Supplies you might have a very different experience.  This is where a few problem pop in.  Not all rennet tablets are the same strength and the culture packets can be of varing freshness.  Because I couldn't access the rennet and culture packets, I had to measure out culture and use rennet for the quantity of milk I was using.  For example I use culture where a 1/16 teaspoon was sufficient to acidify 10 litres and the tablets were 1/2 a tablet for 10 litres and I know this because I used a 1/4 tablet and it too made a very soft curd.

I'm just having problems doing things at the right time

.  If I might be bold here - don't rush.  Plan your cheese making session but don't get too distracted by being absolutley spot on correct. If they say heat for 30 minutes to reach 32 deg, dont worry that it takes 35 or even 25 minutes -  they are just making sure you don't heat the milk too quickly.  Make sure you have a step by step plan written down with space to add times tempeatures and any other observations.  Make notes - lots of notes - take photos.  These will be invaluable in identifying issues but also recreating good cheese.

The link below with take you to a cheddar make with a control sheet
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13038.0.html

Use this as an example and make one for your own cheese. 

Not sure if this is helping or just confusing - I'll stop here ..

-- Mal   

[Danbo]

Ozzie: Your advice is very good as always! :-)

[qdog1955]

Oz
   Are you a teacher?------you should be---excellent advice.
Qdog

[Sarahal88]

Really good advice, thank you so much for you detailed input. I'm going to change milks and start keeping make sheets so I can at least be more methodical about learning from my mistakes. I will be back with more questions, I know. Thank you!