Author Topic: My jack cheese. is this okay?  (Read 4162 times)

fredthecat

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My jack cheese. is this okay?
« on: February 25, 2015, 02:10:24 PM »
Hi, this is my third cheese. I followed the instructions for making "jack" cheese at cheesemakingdotcom's jack recipe page.

It's been 9 days and it seems like very little rind has developed so far, though it's starting to now. I think i might have had the humidity too high from the start. My first two cheeses got a rind really fast but they were in a much drier air.

Heres a pic of it after 9 days (ignore the spotted cloth-it's sanitized and changed daily). Is this rind development normal? It's still dripping a lot, is that okay? Any suggestions?


mjr522

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Re: My jack cheese. is this okay?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2015, 01:28:23 AM »
Looks pretty moist still to me--and you say it's still "dripping" at 9 days?  I'm going with it had too much moisture when you pressed it.  If that is correct, you should expect a crumbly, moist, somewhat sour cheese when you do eventually eat it.  With that said...Right now I think the main goal is just to get it dry out without growing unwanted mold.  How are you letting it dry--is it in a container, a cave of some sort, sitting on the kitchen counter?  The higher humidity will slow down the drying process, but would not quite explain the level of moisture you're experiencing.

I've used a fan gently blowing across cheeses that were too moist.  The cheeses didn't turn out great (they weren't terrible, just not great), but that was because of the mistakes I made while making them (not getting enough moisture out before pressing), not because of the fan.  It's an option, but might be unnecessary.

Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: My jack cheese. is this okay?
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2015, 04:48:11 AM »
Hi Fred,  Do you have any details on the make process - we all might be able to help better with more details.

-- Mal
Usually if one person asks a question then 10 are waiting for the answer - Please ask !

fredthecat

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Re: My jack cheese. is this okay?
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2015, 12:09:39 PM »
hi, i followed http://www.cheesemaking.com/jackcheeserecipe.html except shortened the cooking times from 40 minutes at 100F to about 30 minutes and shortened the next two to about 30 minutes total :(. i was in a rush. It's sitting in the cheese box pictured above inside a concrete closet at a daily temperature of between 52-55 fahrenheit. i don't have a humidity meter yet.

i tried pressing it in the bag like this site suggested and it was a pretty poor press, used 2kg of pressure at first, then 4kg for about 8 hours. i pressed it using a water weight in a bucket.

i think i can pretty much say it was due to a poor pressing. but will it eventually stop dripping and will it be okay? I clean it up every 24 hours and resalt it but even today it had drops of water sitting at the bottom layer below the plastic mesh it sits on.

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it! I'm glad to hear the estimated flavour profile of it from mike. that sounds alright to me, im still just starting.


As an addendum, I am planning to make and test a pressing machine before making another cheese. so that should help in the future.

mjr522

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Re: My jack cheese. is this okay?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2015, 08:04:44 PM »
There's something about many of us that assumes the excess moisture we find in our first few cheeses was because we just didn't press the cheese long enough or hard enough or that we pressed with too much or too little force as first, etc.  The goal(s) of pressing is not so much removing moisture from the curd as it is expelling whey from the spaces between the curds and consolidating the curds into a single cheese (and closing the rind, etc...).  In general, pressing doesn't remove much whey from the curds themselves.  The bigger issue is when we start pressing before the curd has lost enough moisture.  In your case, the rushed cooking and reduced stirring time led to high moisture curd.  How well did your temp ramp go--did you take the full 30 minutes to get to 100 F or did you get there early and hang out a while?  Increasing the temperature too rapidly can also contribute to higher moisture retention by developing a skin on the surface of the curds that is less permeable to whey.  Again, if you start pressing the curd when the moisture is too high, you can't press the excess moisture out.  I believe most people who have made cheese have made a few where they didn't get enough whey out before pressing, so don't feel bad at all--it certainly can still turn out as something you'd like to eat.

You're salting it every day?  Depending on how much you're using, it might be getting really salty.  Plus, the salt might be contributing to the "dripping".  Have you ever learned about osmotic pressure?  Basically, putting salt on the outside of the cheese is creating a pressure gradient that is driving liquid from the inside of the cheese to the outside (which might not seem like a terrible idea if your cheese has too much moisture).  At the same time, the salt is diffusing into the cheese.  I'd say, stop salting, let the cheese sit outside of the container (still in the cave) and give it a few days to see what the rind looks like.  If it's still not drying out, get a small fan in the cave to get some air circulation. 

Good luck!

Stinky

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Re: My jack cheese. is this okay?
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2015, 09:12:36 PM »
Yes, by resalting it you're keeping it wet. I'd just salt it once, after pressing, and then once that dries leave it dry. Right now, you're drawing moisture out like mad, and it's going to be quite salty.

fredthecat

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Re: My jack cheese. is this okay?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2015, 05:01:40 AM »
thank you both for the insight. im happy to learn from a mistake and make better cheese.

its too bad, but SWMBO was urging me to finish up so we could go out. normally i try to follow directions to the letter.

next time... however i did check today and it's starting to dry up. i wont salt it again.


fredthecat

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Re: My jack cheese. is this okay?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2015, 10:54:44 AM »
Thanks. So this is it after about 2 weeks... its covered in a layer of slime and is a little stinky. Whats happening and is thia going to be okay? When i turn the cheese strings of slime hang off it

JeffHamm

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Re: My jack cheese. is this okay?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2015, 03:50:59 AM »
Sounds like you've got a case of bev.linens happening (the stuff that makes a washed rind cheese orange and smelly).  The container could be too humid.  Wipe it down with a cloth to get the excess moisture off the surface, and open the container a bit more.  See if that helps.


- Jeff

fredthecat

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Re: My jack cheese. is this okay?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2015, 02:52:03 PM »
I thought it reminded me of such a thing. But I couldn't imagine it happening unintentionally. However, B. Linens appears to require a salty/moist environment to grow-my cheese had a salty moist environment.

Is it a safe strain? Can I/When can i eat this?

JeffHamm

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Re: My jack cheese. is this okay?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2015, 06:59:02 AM »
B.linens is everywhere, it's on your hands, etc.  Basically, handling the cheese, if the conditions are right (i.e. salty and moist) they will grow.  Wipe it down, prop open your container more to lower the humidity, and see how it goes.  B.linens are all safe, just smelly, at least as far as I know.  I've cultivated a few wild b.linens on my own cheeses and they've turned out fine - provided you like washed rind cheeses, which I do.  Just make sure you don't start getting an ammonia smell developing as that produces off flavours (not harmful, but not the taste you're going for).

- Jeff

fredthecat

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Re: My jack cheese. is this okay?
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2015, 04:51:48 PM »
So, it's now not dripping but a layer of moisture all around the outside. colour is sort of dark yellowy and the smell is of unwashed feet. i saw a tiny bit of green-blue mold growing on it. in this other thread http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14085.0.html i made, some suggest tossing it... but im very cheap and am curious to see final results on experiments.

should i ride this out? is it safe for me to try to eat this after another 2 weeks or so? am i risking my health?

really appreciate the responses. i think i've learned not to do a half-arsed pressing on a cheese.



Offline awakephd

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Re: My jack cheese. is this okay?
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2015, 07:25:34 PM »
The color and the foot-odor certainly sound like b. linens, and the blue-green mold sounds like wild p. rocq. -- all normal and safe, though you would want to cut at least the latter off before eating, simply because it doesn't taste very good. But the slimy wetness shown in the pictures ... it sure has looked rather ... um, how do I say this politely ... uh, disgusting. :)

As long as you don't get a puke type smell, I'd probably let it ride and see what it looks like on the inside, at the least. Whether or not I'd give it a try ... maybe.
-- Andy

tnbquilt

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Re: My jack cheese. is this okay?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2015, 01:42:58 AM »
When you started saying that you shortened the cooking time I just cringed. You can't shorten cooking times until you know how to tell when the curd is done. I think you didn't cook it long enough, so you didn't dehydrate the curd properly. All of the problems that you are having are all related to too much moisture. I have done that too, by accident. We do learn from our mistakes, and I feel like I made my fair share. I hope other people also learned from my mistakes, as I posted most of them on this forum.

fredthecat

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Re: My jack cheese. is this okay?
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2015, 12:40:12 PM »
Well here it is after about 2 months... is it possible for this cheese to make me sick? Im concerned about trying it.

Sorry for this kind of question  but im used to beer, where it might taste bad but will never make you sick. Im going to open it up and study it anyway...