Exchanging Cheese Cultures ?

[qdog1955]

 There are numerous cultures available, that are reasonably priced. These cultures are used often enough or are purchased in small enough amounts, that expiration is not a real concern.
  Then there are the ones that are rather expensive and use small amounts, come in large quantities, and will expire long before you could ever use them.
  So why not exchange these cultures and additives with other forum members? I have already done this, with some members---of course there has to be an element of trust. But you can save quite a bit of money and won't be wasting expensive cultures.
  Here's an example----I purchased a pack of LH 100 for $45.00----I don't use more then 1/4 tsp. at any time, that would last me 5 years, and of course it will expire before that----why not sell or exchange some of that with another small cheese maker?
 I currently need TA 50----a whole 1/16 tsp.-----it will cost $27.00 and I have seen only a few other recipes calling for this.
  Now maybe some of you don't think these are expensive, But I do.
Flav 54-----$37.00
Lh 100------$25 to $45.00
P.Roqueforti------$25 to $35.00
B. Linens------$25 to $50.00
  So give me some thoughts and or suggestions on ways to make an exchange work----or do you think the concept is unworkable?
Qdog

[gjfarm]

I may be in the minority here, but to me the expiration date is like that on food products, just recommended, but not an absolute.  I keep my cultures, molds etc. (not rennet), tightly sealed and in the freezer.  As long as they still work, I don't care what the date says.  I've got some up to 5 years old that seem to be just fine in my cheese making.  My rennet also seems to be effective for about 18 months.  Perhaps using raw milk gives my cheese an extra boost.  Heck, some bottled water companies are putting an expiration date on water!

[qdog1955]

Agree with you 100% on expiration dates------the only problem, is when something goes wrong, was it because of the expired cultures? or did I do something wrong scenario. To me, the chance of wasting 5 to 8 gallons of expensive raw milk, makes me lean to the cautious side.
Qdog

[OzzieCheese]

@Q I think the suggestion is an excellent one, in concept.  Where there are no import restrictions or local then I would gladly participate.  Alas, the Australian Dept of Ag (or Arrgggh!) seem to think that ripening mould are some sort of biological hazard or Class A narcotic (ask Al).  And us poor cousins have nothing to trade as all the cool cultures are available in the US at far cheaper prices.  I think the idea is wonderful ! It is frustrating I know where 1/4 teaspoon of culture you might use 3-4 times costs $40.  It turns a hobby into a very expensive activity.  I didn't start cheese making to save money per se but If I made some of the washed rinds even at the cheapest culture prices would be in excess of US$100 and getting 1 kg of cheese at 100 per Kg it a terribly expensive pastime, even if I make 10-20 !  I do at this stage have to say that Al has been a good mate in helping me but it all still might come to naught - but I'm hoping.

--Mal 

[Kern]

Qdog I understand your point perfectly.  The best way something like this could work if you had a bunch of guys locally making cheese and one of you volunteered to be the "culturemaster".  Everyone would pony up some cash and the cultures would be purchased.  If you wanted something then you'd tell the culturemaster what and how much and he'd fill a little envelope with it and leave it for you to pick up.  Your account would get charged a prorata amount and when your account balance exceeded your initial deposit you'd pony up more cash.  That way the heavy users wouldn't get a free ride on the light users.  The price would have to include some factor for loss (exceeds expiry date, spillage, etc.), packaging costs, measuring utensils, etc.  Postage would be extra so you'd have a choice of whether or not to drive over or pay the postage.  Obviously, there would have to be some rules.  For example, your order would have to be placed on a certain date for pickup three days hence.  If you forgot to pick it up or changed your mind after ordering your account would still have to be charged as it would be risky to remove culture from a packet and then put it back several days later.  Obviously, there would be some disputes and some mechanism would have to be created to settle them.

I think some cultures have proprietary names so permission would have to be obtained from the maker to use the name on repackaged material.  Maybe this is why New England  Cheese Making Supplies calls some of their repackaged cultures C-100 or the like - they avoid the lawyers.

Seriously, by the time you get through will all the above paying a few bucks for cultures the old fashioned way is going to look cheap. 

Having said all this I have about 125 grams of lysozyme I wouldn't mind selling.   

[Al Lewis]

Not sure where you guys get your cultures but you must be buying in bulk at those prices.

Take a look at what a little shopping can do for you.

http://www.thecheesemaker.com/products/Penicillium-Roqueforti.html

http://artisangeek.com/danisco-choozit-pv-penicillium-roqueforti/

http://stores.cheeseconnection.net/danisco-choozit-penicillium-roqueforti-pv-10-doses/


$45.97 to $24.50 for the exact same item.

[shaneb]

Mal - These guys are quite handy for some smaller quantities of cultures. They don't have everything, but there is a bit of variety.

http://www.countrybrewer.com.au/categories/Cheese-Making/Cultures-and-Additives/

Shane

[John@PC]

When we started PC we planned to stock cultures .  We set up a wholesale account with Dairy Connection in WI and planned to drop-ship directly from DC but decided not to because there were many other good retail sources out there as Al Lewis documented.  The "sharing" of cultures would be good to explore if you could work out the details.

[OzzieCheese]

@Shane... Thanks for the link.  I will give them a try though the molds and yeasts are that which I am trying to import or source in Oz, or at least import with spending nearly $1000 for an import licence which they may or may not grant - and still loose the $1000 in the process.

Thanks all for helping.

-- Mal

[shaneb]

Ouch! That certainly does take a hobby into a totally different area. Are the companies that already import moulds able to help?

I grabbed a nice mix of items from there for around $50. It was sent express post, but no ice packs. I got them straight in the freezer when I received them.

Shane

[OzzieCheese]

@Shane. If the culture is not on the Dept. of Ag listing and there are quite a few that are not.  I've rang Cheeselinks and unless it is on the list they are not importing it.  Caught between a rock and a bunch of rubble.  I'll keep plugging away and eventually I'll find a way... some of the yeasts are what can turn a cheese into a classic cheese....  and I can get KL71 and DH - $40 each but they are only available in a 10 DU pack - enough for a decade or two of cheese making...  But the real gold standard is the Mycodore and you guessed it , it's not on the list.  <sigh>

-- Mal